Pagan Rituals
May 24th, 2007, in News, by PatungIndonesian Muslims are urged to defend their practice of Islam against accusations of paganism.
The leader of the Clerics’ Council, Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI), for Nusa Tenggara Barat (NTB) province in the east of the country, Syaiful Muslim, warned Muslims, particularly those on the islands of Lombok and Sumbawa, to be on guard against beliefs brought by people from the middle east. Some forms of Arab/middle eastern Islamic rituals and theology were not appropriate for Indonesian culture and people, he said, and were far removed from the realities of the ordinary Indonesian person’s life, understanding, and experience.
Speaking in Mataram, Lombok on 19th May, Syaiful Muslim gave an example:
When you go into the Haram Mosque at Mecca you can see the way that middle eastern people pray, there are many different ways that they do it and Indonesian people often don’t understand the way that Arabs worship.
The traditions and practises of Muslims in NTB were firmly established, he said, and if middle eastern ideology were to enter the islands there would be a clash because local people were not ready for it. (In recent times in Lombok there have been a number of violent incidents caused by the unwanted presence of strict Saudi Arabian type sects such as Salafi and Wahabi groups.)
People who attempted to spread middle eastern understandings of Islam were often contemptuous of how local people practised the religion, (considering it pagan, probably, although Syaiful Muslim of course did not use this term), and they claimed that their way was correct and had to be followed.
People here often celebrate the birth of Muhammad and chant tales of Muhammad’s life, but in middle eastern countries like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait they don’t do that.
Minor customary rituals like reading prayers for the dead had already been blessed and ordered by Islamic organisations such as Nahdlatul Ulama (NU) and Muhammadiyah but middle eastern ideology always criticised such things, presumably as pagan rituals, or pagan-influenced rituals. antara
I implore people, especially the young and university students, to not blindly accept ideas from the middle east, but to study them properly so there are no conflicts later.
82 Comments on “Pagan Rituals”
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Dimp says:
Hi Cuk,
Shame on me I couldn’t elaborate any better than it already posted by Mr AUGUSTO & ISMAIL.
It shouldn’t be that hard considering you said that there is a clear order from God. If it is that clear then it should be very easy to be elaborated or explained.
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xmale says:
Cukurungan:
We Indonesia have pride because we were able to kick ash bule who intended to take our land.
It took you 400 years and then it was only possible with help from other countries like Australia, read your history, oops I forgot they don’t teach the truth in Indo.
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Cukurungan says:
Xmale,
Yes agreed, Australian Help us to slaughter Timor East people and now they’re pretending like a clean bule.
Our great ancestors always taught us about the truth , the ultimate of truth is “beware with bule” otherwise our fate will be ended up like Aborigin and Red Indian People, their land has been stolen and theirs ancestors had been slaughtered by “Bule”.
We are so pride with ourselves because compared with bule reputation in the crimes against humanity we are like just “new born baby” free from any sins. We stay in our own land whereas bule mostly stay in theirs stolen land.
Regard
Myths Buster -
Cukurungan Says: Our great ancestors always taught us about the truth , the ultimate of truth is “beware with bule” otherwise our fate will be ended up like Aborigin and Red Indian People, their land has been stolen and theirs ancestors had been slaughtered by “Bule”.
The great ancestors of the indiginous people of West Irian taught me about the truth,the ultimate truth is ” beware the Indos they are cruel and greedy, they come to steal our land and commit genocide of our people. They will colonize us and flood our lands with Muslims,they will destroy our culture. But this wont happen 200 or 300 years ago this will happen now in the present time.
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Xmale :
The great ancestors of the indiginous people of West Irian taught me about the truth,the ultimate truth is ” beware the Indos they are cruel and greedy, they come to steal our land and commit genocide of our people. They will colonize us and flood our lands with Muslims, they will destroy our culture. But this won’t happen 200 or 300 years ago this will happen now in the present time.
Cukurungan:
Papuanese is our own brother and papuanese people suffered the same cruelty of “Orba Rezim” like anywhere in Indonesia in the past and now they already given opportunity to manage their own matters under the autonomous regency. We don’t let them free, otherwise they will become an easy prey of “bule predator” like what happened in Timor East.
We are fully aware what behind your cheap merchandise of papuanese genocide there’s nothing new with bule attitude when they see opportunity “proven gold treasure hidden along side Mountains Jayapura”. They are pretending care about “papuanese welfare” but their real agenda is to steal and snatch those treasure by theirself.
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Ihaknt says:
The East Timorese were killed by the Indonesian militants. They hate Indos more than the bule.
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Indonesia military killed and slaughtered Timor East People in 1975 were fully under blessing Australian and US.
Whoever witness the Crime Actions and do nothing while they have power to stop the actions, theirs sins is equal with the criminal itself.
We already admitted our mistake and we abandoned them and let Timor East free. We are now waiting when bule abandoned America and Australia and let the indigenous red indian and aborigin decide with whom they wish to live in their own land.
No more talk about B****IT that AMERICA & AUSTRALIA were discovered by Bule. The proper word shall be “Bule killed and slaughtered the red indian and aborigin” in order to robbed and destroy theirs virgin and scare land.
Regard ,
Bule Myths Buster -
Wow Cuk, you enlightened me…if you hate them so much, why work for bule as you previously admitted?
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Dear Ihaknt,
I am so sad if someone accused being a hatred person while I was just talking the facts and the truth . Of course, the truth sometimes is bitter but the most medicine is also bitter.
Should I worship to Bule if I am working with them even now I am still working, laughing and arguing with them. I admitted about 2 month a go I kicked back an australian bule to his home country but nothing personal I just didn’t want my budget bleeding to pay his very high salary about 150 million IDR/ month while my own countryman can handle his job only cost to my budget 25 million IDR.
My intention upon my post, I wanted to show to all bule that theirs hand and history weren’t so sunshine of humanity. Theirs prosperity and glory are build and sustained upon the misery of billion indigenous people.
I wish, They stop theirs fake propaganda of humanity and democracy and don’t even teach us about that because how can robber and mugger could suddenly becomes the moral lectures.
Yes Indonesia is still poor and suffered so many problems but our criminal rate, suicide rate and symptoms of sick society isn’t so worrying compared with in many AFRICA and south America countries even much better than US CRIMINAL RECORD
Regard,
Bule Myths Buster -
Yawn…boring.
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Well understood your boring, because the hard facts and truth of the human tragedy behind the modern humanity and western civilization revealed by the mythology man so bitter facts that you have difficult times to swallow it.
Now, I am just realizing that my countrymen hearts are mostly made from a pure gold and we don’t have bad feeling toward other people and we trusted our wealth to be managed by other smarter business people and suddenly in 1998 we socked those smarter people cheated us, anyway this is our fault and we shouldn’t assume other people have the golden hearts like us.
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Yawn…bad english. If it was made from gold then sell it, you may make a fortune.
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Hi hi hi. Thanks you fortunately my english is much better than average bule bahasa Indonesia.
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Cuk,
Now, I am just realizing that my countrymen hearts are mostly made from a pure gold and we don’t have bad feeling toward other people
Yet, you always blame the Western people? Such contradiction. You have bad feelings against the Dutch, they already left Indonesia for more than 60 years now, yet you still carry on with your ill-feeling towards them.
fortunately my english is much better than average bule bahasa Indonesia.
That is because Indonesian is not an international language, while English is.
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R. Patterson says:
Cuk & Myths Buster: Just like any moslem you blame every one else for your misfortunes. As I see it moslems think that their god is supreme and if that is so then moslems should be the top nations. But as can be clearly they are not, what moslem nation has a manufacturing base, what moslem nation has a university which is ranked even in the top one thousand of the world’s universities. What moslem nation has many humanitarian groups and while here who was it that poured aid into Aceh the moslem nations – no – as you well know it was the western Christian nations. What moslem nation has a top quality teaching hospital if you look around you will see that 90% of all moslem nations are third rate countries. You blame the western nations for oppressing you when if you were to open your eyes you would see that it is the Arab nations who oppress you through their religion – islam.
Why are the moslem nations including Indonesia so backward, are Indonesians less intelligent – NO! Are they less inovated – NO! Are they less clever – NO! what is the main difference between Western nations and islamic nations – yes it is their religion. If a something is not mentioned in the Arabian koran then allah has degreed that it is not important enough to be studied. If something is mentioned in the Arabian koran – like the sun rising out of a swamp each day?? or the stars being holes in heaven through which jinni spy on humans?? – then to come up with a differing answer through research and study is considered blasphemy against allah. The Arabs who are equally held back by islam have also held back the Indonesian nation and its people through a false religion. And you must know that you are not considered eqal with the Saudis or even the Arab believers some Arab islamics call you freed slaves. The royalty in islam are Saudis who have their own haj. Then the aristocrats are the other Arabs who have their own haj. Then the desendants of slaves including you Indonesians who have the last haj.
If you want to lay the blame for your misfortunes place it where it belongs – on islam which is and always will be a foreign religion for proud Indonesians. R. Patterson
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Dear Mr R Patterson,
Are you real expatriate or just Indonesian using the bule name, anyway I am so happy that you still have time to read my f***ing post.
Let check again, I never said that my country misfortune caused by other country only but I said so many time that the root cause of my country misfortune is caused by the corruption diseases that already infected our society. Meanwhile my self, I always enjoy my live and my bule employer paid me enough for my simple lifestyle while I am still running a small business with some of my friend. I feel my live is full of God blessing. However, it doesn’t mean I couldn’t criticize “Bule”.
In this universe is only one God, “my God” is “your God “, there is no God for Islam only or God for Christian Only. God is a creator of universe and anything in it. In order to remind mankind of His existence, God already sent around 125000 of His messenger that include Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus might include Great Alexander for Greece, Buddha Gautama for India, Confusius for Chinese while afore mentioned the God messengers were specifically send only for the certain human races while our prophet or Muhammad SAW is the last God messenger send to all mankind and our prophet claimed about himself was proven even 1400 year after his birth, there is no one the new religion founder able to beat His ability to attract the followers.
Now, our God is staying in His Arsy above the universe and nothing else above Him and He is watching all of us. However, in now days there is only very few the people who worship to the real God, mostly people worship to the fake God such as the wealth, career, woman, Statue, George Bush, priest, pope, Kyai, Wali Grave, Saints and Jesus. All those kind of worship doesn’t bother me at all because every people have full right to decide which kind of God to be worship whether it is the real God or the fake God.
There is no question that at present time, there is no “Top Nation” with its citizen majority Moslem but it is unfair if you judge it only for the present time condition, if you widen your zoom time back to the human history, once upon time the Moslem nation were dominating the world and even the Spanish was ever under Moslem ruler almost 800 years. The reason why no Moslem country listed in Top Nation because there is no Moslem Nation except only some countries with their majority citizen is the Moslem followers but it is mostly only the very low quality Moslem.
God said in Quran “He will roster the world ruler as He wish”. Refer to human history, God already roster the world ruler once upon time to Egypt, Persian, Roman, Tartar, Moslem (more than 800 years ruling the world) and in the 20 century to Western Christian but the world time is still ticking and my prediction the next world ruler will be China and India so nothing special.
God never promise to us that the world’s is for the Moslem only, instead of God will give us the immortal happiness in the live after died. God said this world’s is not belonging for us but the world is the place for the temporary enjoyment given to the un-believer and God actually wish to give the un-believers the home made from silver and gold as an exchange of their immortal misery under the agony hell fire.
Western Countries were becoming advance countries because they hide the non-sense religion at home and using the common sense to govern their live whereas the Moslem countries were becoming the backwards countries because they hide their truth religion at shelf and applying the consumerism religion to govern their live.
You could not hide history that when Christian Dutch came to our land were not in the shape of Santa Claus but in the shape of Robber and Mugger who robbed and monopolized commodity produced by our countrymen while first Moslem came here was in the good shape as a polite trader. You could not hide the fact that our belief in Islam was preventing and protecting us becoming extinct like what happened on the Red Indian and aboriginal people who don’t have Islam on them. You were easily wiped out all of them and now days you made them like the exotic animal who live in certain sanctuary under your protection and you were easily slaughtered our Balinese brother in “perang puputan” but with our belief in Islam that forbid us to follow and abide un-believer like you, it was saving us to become your slave and preventing us to be fully conquered. And with the same spirit, now the only handful Moslem fighter in Iraq couldn’t be fully conquered by the mighty and modern army US. It is unfair if you compare our young country with the mature western country. My understanding, our country achievement during 60 years of our self rule and control is much better than the achievement 300 years under your occupation.
To make comparison apple to apple let check what happened in ASEAN countries that either Moslem majority or Christian majority play important role on determining how advance a certain country. Just for example how Philippines already deadly import anything smell western include religion and the way western f***king s***it but it doesn’t make them substantially any better than us or even Malaysia, the country with Moslem Majority. So your conclusion that Islam made a country becomes backward can be drop easily.
Don’t blame me on my hobby of the blaming other but see what Pope said recently about the big share of the western Christian countries toward misery billion peoples in the third world. We are fully aware that you tried hard to exchange your image become the world santa claus but the stained that the western Christians civilization were build upon misery of the billion people in thirds world’s is un-eraseable.
My self already performed Hajj ritual in Mecca, there was nothing what you said about “Hajj Ritual Priority” given to Arab people or Saudi Royal Family. Yes I saw some guard for protecting the young Saudi Royal Family during the stoning ritual but that guard didn’t prevent us to perform our hajj ritual together with the Saudi Royal Family. The ritual Hajj to be performed in a certain time frame known by every Moslem and our own decision to select which the timing convenient for us to perform it. Because average of our body is the small size we chose the hajj ritual timing outside the time frame coincident with Moslem from Africa or Turkey and it is not determined by the Royal family Saudi. Your knowledge of Islam is very limited, I assumed your source come from the Moslem hatred and you knew nothing about Islam.
Regard ,
AMUNGME SON -
Oigal says:
Cuk,
Gee, you were doing pretty good until the hate and dodgy gasp of facts took control.
“You could not hide the fact that our belief in Islam was preventing and protecting us becoming extinct like what happened on the Red Indian and aboriginal people who don’t have Islam on them. You were easily wiped out all of them and now days you made them like the exotic animal who live in certain sanctuary under your protection and you were easily slaughtered our Balinese brother in “perang puputan” but with our belief in Islam that forbid us to follow and abide un-believer like you, it was saving us to become your slave and preventing us to be fully conquered. And with the same spirit, now the only handful Moslem fighter in Iraq couldn’t be fully conquered by the mighty and modern army US. It is unfair if you compare our young country with the mature western country.”
P.S
“first Moslem came here was in the good shape as a polite trader”.
Actually he was a most likely a slave trader.
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The Abos are not extinct, where did you get that? There are many of them. Alive and happily drunk on mouthwash. They don’t need Islam to survive. They have their own belief, stupido!
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Blackcurlie says:
R. Patterson Says:
Islamics worship the pagan moon god of mecca whose name is hubal.
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lol, you made my stomach sick.
bwa hahaha. you’ll better to read islamic Hystory,Are all christian really dumb,
bwa ha ha ha.Sputjam Says:
I do not have to elaborate more on this.
The haj is a massive pagan ritual. The largest such ritual in the world. Only the blind cannot see that it is pagan in nature.
What lies under the black shroud? Only the King of saudi knows,……..
————————-Sputjam you watch entertainment TV too much, lol + Bwa ha ha ha
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schmerly says:
I’m just a simple non believer, but I’ve seen all these people doing the Hajj on television, and I noticed they line up to put their heads in what looks like a large stainless steel bedpan! then they kiss something inside, now I’ve often wondered what’s inside that thing, is it the mummified ass of Mohamed? just a thought.
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they kiss something inside, now I’ve often wondered what’s inside that thing,
nothing just only stone
Comment on “Pagan Rituals”.
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Sputjam,
I rejected your Quran interpretation while you also rejected mine. Both of us agreed on the disagreement full stop.
Dimp:
Cukurungan:
Shame on me I couldn’t elaborate any better than it already posted by Mr AUGUSTO & ISMAIL.