Pagan Rituals
May 24th, 2007, in News, by PatungIndonesian Muslims are urged to defend their practice of Islam against accusations of paganism.
The leader of the Clerics’ Council, Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI), for Nusa Tenggara Barat (NTB) province in the east of the country, Syaiful Muslim, warned Muslims, particularly those on the islands of Lombok and Sumbawa, to be on guard against beliefs brought by people from the middle east. Some forms of Arab/middle eastern Islamic rituals and theology were not appropriate for Indonesian culture and people, he said, and were far removed from the realities of the ordinary Indonesian person’s life, understanding, and experience.
Speaking in Mataram, Lombok on 19th May, Syaiful Muslim gave an example:
When you go into the Haram Mosque at Mecca you can see the way that middle eastern people pray, there are many different ways that they do it and Indonesian people often don’t understand the way that Arabs worship.
The traditions and practises of Muslims in NTB were firmly established, he said, and if middle eastern ideology were to enter the islands there would be a clash because local people were not ready for it. (In recent times in Lombok there have been a number of violent incidents caused by the unwanted presence of strict Saudi Arabian type sects such as Salafi and Wahabi groups.)
People who attempted to spread middle eastern understandings of Islam were often contemptuous of how local people practised the religion, (considering it pagan, probably, although Syaiful Muslim of course did not use this term), and they claimed that their way was correct and had to be followed.
People here often celebrate the birth of Muhammad and chant tales of Muhammad’s life, but in middle eastern countries like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait they don’t do that.
Minor customary rituals like reading prayers for the dead had already been blessed and ordered by Islamic organisations such as Nahdlatul Ulama (NU) and Muhammadiyah but middle eastern ideology always criticised such things, presumably as pagan rituals, or pagan-influenced rituals. antara
I implore people, especially the young and university students, to not blindly accept ideas from the middle east, but to study them properly so there are no conflicts later.
82 Comments on “Pagan Rituals”
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
Cukurungan:
I already made my own research and I concluded by myself that aididsafa website belonging to the devil teaching and I will never worship him like you.When your heart is not indepent of divinely Arabs, you cannot make sound judgement. I know an Arab family with family name ‘El-Sheikh’. I can introduce them to you if you want. He can tell you that Islam is not all about, “An Arab throw a ball, Cuk run to fetch it”. Be proud of what you are.
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Cukurungan says:
Beloved Aluang,
Many thanks for your acknowledged about my knowledge you can bring your friend ARAB SHEIKH to learn on me about Islam and live.
Btw once I read your writing, I feel it like last attempt by a woman who almost in the near peak of her orgasm and pretend to make small bite with voice without any meaning …oh no…oh yes ..oh no oh yeeeees
I recommend you to learn more on outside your factory because in your factory no one would dare to challenge your words and this will make your brain stop growing, I knew you are basically an inteligent man.
Regard ,
Your SaviorDear Ihaknt,
Many thanks for your english correction, both of us should be able to have a symbiosis mutualism, you might help my english and in return I will make you experienced a deep and nice sleep.
regard ,
Your Beloved Man -
Hi Cuk, I do not need to work inside my factory. I enjoy life like my evil twin, Achmad. I am not preparing for doomsday. My Chinese associates take care of business, and consult me if they can’t handle things. I spent the whole afternoon zooming around town on my vintage Harley with my buddies, and at dusk, logged in to check on your progress. You should be thanking me for being a caring brother. Let me share with you my club motto, “We are not together but always in unity”. Stay sharp and stay focus if you want to be smart Indonesian.
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BELOVED ALUANG,
That’s much better words, I love my shep as I love myself but it doesn’t mean hihihi I am supporters of the wife’s exchange . I know you’re a good gentleman but by exposing your self on such lifestyle your brain will never work again however, you should thanks to patung giving you opportunity to learn from me.
I don’t think you’re twin brother of Achmad because he shared the same Arabian tale as me and not like you totally rejected the Arabian tales.
My shep, to make it easy understanding let we consider Arabian tale as Japanese and “Car Invention”. Anyone know that Car inventors wasn’t Japanese but in now days Japan Car Makers becomes King in this world. This is the same as Islam was originated in Arab Land but we don’t need to become Arabic and let we make our own javanese Islam much better than Islam Arab.regard,
Your SaviorSputjam,
If you believe with what aididsafa said on his quran interpretation it means you worship Him like ahli kitab worship their priest.
What aididsafa said in his kuran interpretation is nothing more than a common sense plus “playing kuran”.
Because his interpretation simply replace God order in sholat, fasting and haji with goodness of the common sense. It seemed nothing wrong but it is completely wrong because the religion is not about common sense only but trust something beyond common sense.
My recommendations you should ask repent to GOD and return to our prophet koran interpretation because God clearly said that the prophet is best human living example.
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Cuk, I can’t see the analogy. Japanese inherited the mobile making technology, but I don’t see them bowing toward America. Did they call themselves slaves to the American? Did they bring American into their lounge room to get a pick of their daughters? This is exactly what you are proposing to our nation for your Arab masters.
It is a blessing we have a very Javanised Islam for centuries. Now they want us to be more Islamic to help them fight the Bules, I say it is time for us to severe tie with Arab imperialism. We do not want to side with the Bules as well. They are too nosey and it is their own undoings that they disturded the hornets’ nests. We have to learn to be smart like the Chinese. Neutral on both sides. Of course Arabs are welcomed to our country to conduct business but not think of our women as cheap, Bules are also welcomed for holiday but not touch our little children. Indonesian is a wealthy country but very badly managed. It is time for us to be our own master.
God’s Brother.
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Achmad Sudarsono says:
Friend, I am so happy we all agree on how important it is to fight the Bules.
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Beloved Aluang,
Please check by yourself how Black American Soldiers pick easily a japanese ladies in Yokohoma beach especially during summer because Japanese are fully bowing towards American in every aspect. Even the fake bule priest are on high demand in there.
Tell me who ARAB man asked us to bow to ARAB country so far I know almost all Arabian formal Government are bowing to AMERICAN because frightened growing IRAN INFLUENCE.
My master isn’t stay in ARAB LAND but in His Arsy above the sky where no one else above Him.
You suggested because Chinese is smart let them running this country so Telkomsel Case can be repeated again where after stealing BLBI money your Chinese friend can take over Telkomsel using those stolen money with different name.
Not too bad sugession from the naughty motor rider boy.
Anyway your motto club sound goods like motto of my kid in kinder garden club.Regard,
Your Savior -
Sputjam says:
For this blog, I use two translations
a) by Kassem Saleh
b) by Aidid SafarBoth are malays and did not inherit Arabian cultural stigma. I would love to read the new one written by an american women that went on CNN several weeks ago (Ms Bahkteer I think her name was). I have already read the ones by pickthall and yusuf ali.
The ones by aidid safar and kassm saleh made sense.
They call mankind to God’s system (or some say way of life).Let us look at some translation by yusuf ali describing people like you :-
78. And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture.
You quoted “religion”, when God quote “deen” in the koran. Even based on this basic fact, you have already erred. Deen’s actual meaning is not religion but system/order/way of life.
Let us see what Yusuf Ali say about priest:-
31. They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah. There is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).
32. Fain would they extinguish Allah.s light with their mouths, but Allah will not allow but that His light should be perfected, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it).34. O ye who believe! there are indeed many among the priests and anchorites, who in Falsehood devour the substance of men and hinder (them) from the way of Allah. And there are those who bury gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah. announce unto them a most grievous penalty-
Even yusuf Ali’s translation warned mankind against priest and imams. But of course, after stating all these facts, you will still not follow the koran.
OK! let us go back to what you wrote :-
Because his interpretation simply replace God order in sholat, fasting and haji with goodness of the common sense. It seemed nothing wrong but it is completely wrong because the religion is not about common sense only but trust something beyond common sense.
It is because you trust something beyond common sense that you end up being a stone worshipper. Just as God suggested in the koran according to yusuf ali as follows:-
170. When it is said to them: “Follow what Allah hath revealed:” They say: “Nay! we shall follow the ways of our fathers.” What! even though their fathers Were void of wisdom and guidance?
171. The pArable of those who reject Faith is as if one were to shout Like a goat-herd, to things that listen to nothing but calls and cries: Deaf, dumb, and blind, they are void of wisdom.
Oops, why even yusuf Ali said the same things about islamic and other religionist.
And what hath Allah revealed in the koran? That those who follow priest and religion are doomed.
That is why you will never find a message in the koran asking mankind to pray five time a day, fast during ramadan and the rules and method of doing these rituals. where did the religious scholars come up with the rules and regulations of doing these rituals? why they created it by themselves. That is why there is a warning concerning the imams in the koran.
God has already stated that you do not require a religion to beleieve in God as Yusuf Ali suggested :-62. Those who believe (in the Qur’an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
What other evidence do you require to show you that islamic religionist are pagans being misled by Arab hypocrites disguised as preachers and islamic scholars?. I do not belong to any religion, I have stopped going to mosques and never listen to imams anymore. I am merely following the guidance described in the koran. Why don’t you read the koran more often ( and other books of interest too)
Concentrate on doing good deeds and be faithful believer to God and the hereafter (in this sense, there may be more chinese who do good deeds than islamic religionist, who spend way too much time in the mosque doing rituals that does not benefit themselves). But if you still insist that I am wrong despite translation by yusuf Ali, I give up. To you, your belief and to me my faith.
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Mas Cuk,
Please check by yourself how Black American Soldiers pick easily a japanese ladies in Yokohoma beach especially during summer because Japanese are fully bowing towards American in every aspect. Even the fake bule priest are on high demand in there.
O dear, such ignorance statement coming from an ulu-ulu boy.
I do not need to check but I can fully agree with you. Japanese ladies are cute, petite, innocent-looking but the most unchaste of all Asian women. They even rank ahead of Western women in promiscuity, the only difference is that they are submissive. I have throng of them during my younger wild years. Indonesians and Vietnameses are the most hard to get. I do not need to go further. Go ask any Indonesian students coming back from overseas.
So your whole paragraph 1 is based on wrong assumption. NO, the Japanese do not bow to American. EVEN if the Japanese bow to the American, why should we bow to the Arabs, or any other nationals, for that matter. This is not a valid excuse to get us subservient to the Arabs. Good try, Cuk, but I ain’t fooled. You are a disgrace to our country. You have no national pride in you!
Tell me who ARAB man asked us to bow to ARAB country so far I know almost all Arabian formal Government are bowing to AMERICAN because frightened growing IRAN INFLUENCE.
Cuk, take a good look at yourself in the mirror. The Arab-wannabe reflection of yourself is the one trying to make us slave to your Arab masters. Arabs bow to the Americans, it is none of our business and ‘frankly, honey, I don’t give a damn’. You should read up Margaret Mitchell’s Gone wth the wind. It will mellow out your jihadi craving, and hopefully drain away your slave mentality.
My master isn’t stay in ARAB LAND but in His Arsy above the sky where no one else above Him.
I couldn’t agree more. That is why you and your jihadi brothers are so eager to blow yourselves up to meet Him. I don’t give a crap if you blow yourself up, but do not take our innocent brothers and sisters with you. You said Mas Achmad also believe in your Arabian tales. Heck, who are you kidding. He is in his prime and enjoying life. He has a touch of aristrocracy in him and a man of vanity, and I doubt it very much that he would want to meet his maker prematurely while nongkrong-ing with his buddies. He is taking the finest part of your Arabian tales and incorporating it into Javanese belief. You are the silly one, you swallowed the whole lot – line, hook and sink.
You suggested because Chinese is smart let them running this country so Telkomsel Case can be repeated again where after stealing BLBI money your Chinese friend can take over Telkomsel using those stolen money with different name.
Chinese is only 5% and you are complaining. They become very wealthy because we do not use our brain. We can’t follow the example of the Arabs and the Westerners because they are immoral people. They have one thing in common, they are a threat to little children. That is why they can’t get enough of each other. The Chinese are virtuous people and above all very pragmatic. Also they are not intrusive. We will need them to help prop up our economy. Yes they are greedy, but tell me, who is not? As long as we keep a watchful eye on them, we can get the economy going. Infact I think we should import more Chineses in – to make 20%. They are like earthworms for the gardeners. One thing for sure, if we leave our children with them, they won’t be sexually abused.
Not too bad sugession from the naughty motor rider boy.
Anyway your motto club sound goods like motto of my kid in kinder garden club.I am always planning for our next club meet, or flying in business class overseas. Why work when the populace are dreamers like you – waiting for the correct interpretation of your fairy tales and riches to fall from the sky. The Chinese will want you to dream on, but I want you to wake up.
Regards,
God’s brother looking after you.(sorry Patung, way out of topic, it is your call to delete this posting but please leave it for a day or two so bro Cuk can read and ponder on what I have said. I am trying to help him).
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I am merely following the guidance described in the koran.
Koran only moslems are only safe in the Western world and Indonesia. Elsewhere your blood is halal. Dr Rashad Khalifa found the filth in the hadith, discarded it and was murdered.
Why don’t you read the koran more often ( and other books of interest too)
I enjoy life. I am in no hurry to meet my ‘maker’.
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I do not need to check but I can fully agree with you. Japanese ladies are cute, petite, innocent-looking but the most unchaste of all Asian women. They even rank ahead of Western women in promiscuity, the only difference is that they are submissive. I have throng of them during my younger wild years. Indonesians and Vietnameses are the most hard to get.
Wow! And you got 72 virgins without having to blow yourself up. Or maybe they blew you up?
Why don’t you read the koran more often (and other books of interest too).
This reference only for those who found thmselves lost in islamic religion. go back to basics. Go back to the Koran. Even previous prophets found it difficult to convince mankind to forgo religion and preisthood and embrace God’s system.
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Wow! And you got 72 virgins without having to blow yourself up. Or maybe they blew you up?
LOL @ Sputjam. White, yellow, brown or black, Japanese girls do not discriminate. You can even exchange her with your friend’s like trading lollies. I can even name up to a dozen of my colleagues who had a Jap girl before. Haha, I do not need to blow myself up.
This reference only for those who found thmselves lost in islamic religion. go back to basics. Go back to the Koran. Even previous prophets found it difficult to convince mankind to forgo religion and preisthood and embrace God’s system.
If I reveal a verse, say, ‘If you are thirsty, drink water, God is oft-merciful, most high’ or another verse, ‘if you don’t look after yourself, you will get sick. And God heareth and knoweth all things’. It is not divine, it is stating the obvious. You go re-read your holy book, it is full of this.
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Sputjam,
Let assume you got accident and
make you becomes a disabled husband all your ability was gone and you couldn’t work anymore and only becomes burden to your family. What is your common sense decide to Your fate. You will ask doctor’s to stop Your miserable life or continue life as the family burden. Let me kow how your common Sense deen system decide your matters.Worship to God known well in any kind of deen system or religion from Hindusm, Budhaism, Judaesm until Islamic system
with their respectively ritual.
Of course you can reject those obligations based your own Quran. We won’t touch you as long as you don’t call yourself as moslem because we never tolerate anyone claimed their self as a moslem or islam follower while they reject explicitly the tenets was clearly written in Quran.MAS ALUANG,
I am so happy that finally what I taught to you paid off. Now we have been narrowing our gap of in the many area concern I believe it will be no more barrier among us ASAP.
I already took mirror and my faces is quite close to “Sunan Kalijogo” and not like “Osama bin Laden”.
Let me clarify anyone who believe in one God only and don’t reject Koran and don’t make Koran as a Jokes that is enough to be my brother and shared Arabian tale like Achmad and not like you who totally rejected the tale and even refer a slice Koran for your jokes.
I never asked anyone to do Jihad and other extreme religion deeds. For me religion obedience is a personal matters and I don’t care to anyone who don’t do sholat and eat pork as long as they don’t make public statement that ” pork is halal and sholat doesn’t required for Moslem” while they claimed their self as Moslem. If they want to do nongkrong or doing whatever they wish , who care every people has own accountability to their Maker.
Concerning Chinese people , I am no blind to see their superiority compare with pribumi. But their superiority was manipulated by our own countrymen especially in Top Brass of Our Armies. Collusion of both greedy Creature (Chinese Smart and Hard Worker + military General lazy and powerful ) were causing collateral damage and ruined this country economy and in every aspect of our society. What do you think cukong and centheng of illegal logging, who is name written in “STNK” truck used in illegal logging transport why police couldn’t do anything. The Indonesia poor terrorist won’t ever exist if this country has enough foods to feed their countrymen.
Don’t get wrong with me, I am not promoting to hate chinese because even my house is sharing wall with my two Chinese neighbors. Because of those chinese superiority above average pribumi, Government should create regulations that enable pribumi learn and run small business without direct competition against Chinese business without that the pribumi small business will never survive against the good network of chinese business.
Of course, for the pribumi powerful like you would prefer to work with Chinese because so many direct and instant advantage working with them. But in long term, our countrymen will never learn a lessons and ultimately we will never becomes true independent country because so many important things is still beyond our own control.
This is the big different between us and Japan. Our smart pribumi always take advantage from our less smart countrymen while the smart Japanese always work hard to create the opportunity for the less smart japanese to survive. Japanese Rice Farmer will be bankrupt within short times if their Government eliminate the protection for them but they don’t do that even Japanese has to pay the highest prices of rice in the world.
Now let see how our textile industry is almost close to extinction because direct competition against chinese textile . While there are so many new “ITC ” being constructed but its content all chinese import product so ITC is “Indonesia Toko tapi jualan barang China”.
I hope my lessons today will further open-up your vision and horizon.
Regard ,
Your Beloved Savior -
Cuk,
Of course you can reject those obligations based your own Quran. We won’t touch you as long as you don’t call yourself as moslem because we never tolerate anyone claimed their self as a moslem or islam follower while they reject explicitly the tenets was clearly written in Quran.
What do you mean by ‘touch’ here? Chop, hack and slice?
Cuk, I am a moslem by birth, and I know enough Arabic to say the prayer. My wife still prefer to wear the jilbab because she had done so as far back as she remembered. We go to the masjid only when we visited her parents. We don’t consider ourselves as moslem but my paperworks indicated that we are moslem. Should we be tolerated?
I already took mirror and my faces is quite close to “Sunan Kalijogo” and not like “Osama bin Laden”.
Sure? I thought you look like Michael Jackson, because you say children is halal.
Concerning Chinese people , I am no blind to see their superiority compare with pribumi.
I think we are equal to Chinese. They excelled in areas (e.g. business) where we pribumi excelled in another (e.g. entertainment showbiz). Cuk, you have to rid yourself of inferior complexity and slave mentality. Lift your head up, brother.
Of course, for the pribumi powerful like you would prefer to work with Chinese because so many direct and instant advantage working with them. But in long term, our countrymen will never learn a lessons and ultimately we will never becomes true independent country because so many important things is still beyond our own control.
You are wrong. My biggest financial backer and business partner is a Jordanian. I have only started in China few years ago, and the Chinese are my distributors. One learn how to be sharp when dealing with the Chinese. Beside not very smart, our countrymen are too lazy, and I believe Islam is the main culprit. They think that riches will fall from the sky if they are more devouted. The productions here are too slow and there are always mistakes. My partner and I were planning to shut it down but many families will lose their job. Thanks to your religion.
This is the big different between us and Japan. Our smart pribumi always take advantage from our less smart countrymen while the smart Japanese always work hard to create the opportunity for the less smart japanese to survive. ……
And you are trying to make our countyrmen less smart with more Arabian tales.
Regards,
God’s brother -
Janma says:
I think you are all right! Everyone has a valid argument!
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Mas Aluang,
If you believe Islam is the main culprit I glad to hear it what you’re going to do to us the islam faithful followers. hihihi Will you send us to meet 72 virgins?
Many thanks, for your fresh evidence how exactly typical smart pribumi hesitation to share their wealth with their own countrymen.
You don’t need to find excuse if you afraid becomes poor because our countrymen will bites you little by little and make your business cripple.
Why you don’t move your business to Papua, or Flores or TaTor where our non-moslem brother are desparetely looking for the job. Hence let see how people the non-influenced Arabian tale productivity compared with the influenced one.It seemed you didn’t want to counter the truth I revealed instead of you tried to distract it to the post wasn’t directed to you.
Sorry,if my lessons too hard for you to accept it because the truth is like a sun, it will make you melt once you approach it closer.Btw, you’re lucky gentleman who can learn directly about live and universe from the Mythology Man.
Regard,
Your Beloved Savior -
Aluang:
I think we are equal to Chinese. They excelled in areas (e.g. business) where we pribumi excelled in another (e.g. entertainment showbiz).
Cukurungan:
Hehe he I couldn’t more agree with you, see how so many our pribumi celebrities have made sunshine career in holywood and international entertainment like Gong lie, Chun yo fat, Jet li and Jacky Chan …huahaha… all of those celebrities come from nganjuk and blitar…wake-up brother your live has been slavery with a motor bike
Aluang:
You are wrong. My biggest financial backer and business partner is a Jordanian. I have only started in China few years ago, and the Chinese are my distributors. One learn how to be sharp when dealing with the Chinese.
Cukurungan:
I am just wondering how can an Arab Jordan trusted their investment to you (Arabic Hater). Sorry I hope that I am wrong, I guess that there was involved painful transaction upon yourself and this bad experience was extrapolated by your deep consciousness anything towards Arab matters.
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DoOs says:
Sheesh, you all are outdated. Religion was built by brilliant philosophers who had in mind came up with a solution to increase public order. Yes its politics. Prophet Mohamad himself sees the economic advantage of haj, bringin people in to the Arab world for profit through foreign consumption.
Don’t you guys see the big picture, Prophet Mohamad is one genious who’ve overseen the future. He is a hypocrite, not some holly fellow described in the Qur’an… think about why he is a playboy in the first place 😀
I’m a so so… if I need religion in my hand then I use it, if not I throw it away, else if it betrays me than I destroy it.
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DoOs:
Sheesh, you all are outdated. Religion was built by brilliant philosophers who had in mind came up with a solution to increase public order. Yes its politics. Prophet Mohamad himself sees the economic advantage of haj, bringin people in to the Arab world for profit through foreign consumption.
Cukurungan :
If religion was built by a philosopher then why until more than 1400 years latter after birth of our prophet, no one of the new founder religion succeeded to surpass Islam in terms of its records to attract the followers and its influence in the human history. Yes there’s a new religion but its followers and its influence isn’t equal contender for the islam while God said clearly Quran to challenge all mandkind to make the similar holy books if they can.
Until now day, no one able to release a new holy book to break record of Quran.
Regard,
Myths Buster -
Dimp says:
Cuk,
Quality matters not quantity. BTW, just for one’s amusement, which Islam is the one attracting the most followers? Sunni, Syiah, Ahmadiyah?
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Cuk says :-
Worship to God known well in any kind of deen system or religion from Hindusm, Budhaism, Judaesm until Islamic system with their respectively ritual.
God says :
2:99 We have sent down to you clear verses; only the evil ones would disbelieve in them.
2:153 O you who believe, “seek help through endurance with perseverance and be committed. Indeed God is with those who persevere.
2:62 Indeed, those who believe, and those proclaimed to be guided, and the supporters and the Sobe’ans – any of them who believe with God and the hereafter and do the deeds of righteousness – thus for them the rewards by their Lord – and there shall be no fear over them – and they will not grieve.
So u see Cuk, you have diverted big time.
DoOs says:-
Prophet Mohamad himself sees the economic advantage of haj, bringin people in to the Arab world for profit through foreign consumption
Prophet Mohamed was against pagan rituals and never promoted the Haj.
You do not need a religion to believe in God as stated in the koran :-
2:62 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabians, whomever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good work; they will have their reward with their Lord, with no fear over them, nor will they grieve.
Those who proclaim to be Muslims are actually pagans. They ignored the messages in the koran, including Cuk.
God’s messages in the koran was never about religion. It is all about doing good works. That is why you will never find any worship rituals remarks in the koran. Those that disbelieve with what I mentioned, they cannot prove or give evidence to show otherwise. They are merely following their ancestors belief without questioning.
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Dimp:
Today Moslem quality is like a water bubble. If you want to see the number of the faithful moslem you may check the number of moslem who attend sholat subuh.
Their number is less than 5 people even the big mosque.Ahmadiyah and “Sputjam beliefs” are beyond Islam and we fully reject to be associated with them. We will let them free as long as they don’t claim their self as moslem and Islam followers otherwise we wil destroy them.
Regard ,
Enemy of Achmadiah -
Then prove to me Cuk that you have to pray subuh.
Where in the koran states that you have to pray suboh or asr, or zhr or mghrb or isyak?
The five pillars in islam was a con.
There was no ritual worship to begin with.Cuk is like many Muslims religionist as follows:-
2:170 And when it is said to them, “Follow whatever was transmitted by God”, they say, “Never! We will only follow whatever we found over it of our forefathers”. Although their forefathers never used their common sense – and they were never guided?
2:171 And the example of those who disbelieve is like the example of those who shout with whatever it cannot hear except calling and shouting. Deaf, dumb and blind. Surely they cannot understand.Can’t you see Cuk, after Moses, the “children of israel” rebelled and created their Jewish religion.
After Jesus, despite giving a clear message, a religion of Christianty emerged.
After Mohamed, a pagan Arab religion of islam emerged, probably a continuation of their forefathers religion.God did not ask mankind to embrace religion. Merely to serve God by submitting to his guidelines in the Koran.
Because in the next life, for the faithful, you will be judged by your deeds alone. Not the number of times you worshipped, nor the number of children you bear, not the amount of money you donated to build mosques.
For those who refuse to believe in God, They are arrogants. Despite clear signs in the heavens and the earth, they refuse to submit to God. -
Sputjam,
I don’t need to prove anything to anyone who don’t beliefs what I beliefs. There was so many clear God order in Quran for sholat, rukuk and stand-up but your Quran version deflected it to “good deeds of common sense”. As I said the religion is not about a common sense but trust beyond the common sense.
If God only wish mankind to do “good deeds based of common sense”. God won’t ever send His messenger on earth to explain those good deeds to mankind because God already embedded on every people heart that people naturally would enjoy performing those good deed and people will normally haunted with their own bad deeds. It proven in todays world’s that people without any religion and hiding their religion in the shelves are implementing the good deeds much better than the people well known as the religionous obedience.
Therefore, I fully believe that the purpose of God sent “His Messengers” to earth is to remind “mankind” that they have other obligations to God beyond “goodness of common sense”.
Your beliefs is for yourself and my beliefs is for myself. We won’t touch your skin as long as you don’t claim yourself as moslem otherwise we will crush you.
Regards,
Moslem Wiper -
Hi Cuk,
Today Moslem quality is like a water bubble. If you want to see the number of the faithful moslem you may check the number of moslem who attend sholat subuh.
Their number is less than 5 people even the big mosque.So you are saying that the quality of the moslem is only determined by “sholat subuh”?
Ahmadiyah and “Sputjam beliefs” are beyond Islam and we fully reject to be associated with them. We will let them free as long as they don’t claim their self as moslem and Islam followers otherwise we wil destroy them.
Destroy? Is this what you have been taught? I thought Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance. Maybe I was wrong. Thank you for clarifying this one.
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Cuk says:
There was so many clear God order in Quran for sholat, rukuk and stand-up.
Show me which verse in the koran states these things. Even the ulamas acknowledge that these verses do not exist and you have to refer to the sunnahs and hadiths to obtain methods of ritual praying. And even ulamaks can vouch that sunnahs and hadiths are written by men of dubious understanding.
Ahmadiyah and “Sputjam beliefs” are beyond Islam and we fully reject to be associated with them. We will let them free as long as they don’t claim their self as moslem and Islam followers otherwise we wil destroy them.
When deviationist are confronted with the “truth”, the have no other avenues than to threaten/obstruct/destroy God’s messages.
Some prophets have been ridiculed and some detroyed by people like Cuk. Even the Muslim religionist acts of worship is questionable, if you have given it a thought.
The term “allahuakbar” or “god is great” is never stated in the koran. But God is “merciful”, “the almighty” are terms used in the koran.Cuk cannot give any evidence to suggest that he is following God’s words in the koran. Instead, he has chosen a path of pagan Arab traditions, of threat and destruction, because the truth really hurts.
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Dimp,
Please be reminded I am not the truth itself but I am trying to explain to you clearly without hide anything about my understanding of the truth.
My Islam is a full version without man made editing, yes Islam tenets teach about caring, charity, giving, education and tolerance but I am not hiding that there’s clear God order to attack, destroy, kill and ambush the enemies.
However, for mainstream moslem we believe “those strike buttons ” shall not be pushed unless the condition is fully meet and I already posted in previous topics the prerequisite to push those strike buttons.We also believe that the religion is personal matters and there’s no compulsory to embrace any religion but we won’t tolerate anyone claim their self as a moslem or Islam followers while in other hand, they refute explicitly about “perintah and larangan” written in Quran.
Sputjam,
Your heart and eye have been deceived by Sattan and you couldn’t see “perintah sholat” mentioned so many time in ayat Quran. Again I reminded you that you can go head with your own belief but If you try to spread it in the masses your fate will be the same as Al-halaj and Syeh Siti Jenar.
Regards,
Myths Buster -
Hi Cuk,
there’s clear God order to attack, destroy, kill and ambush the enemies.
Can you please elaborate then, if it there is a clear order from God, you can easily elaborate where we can find that order.
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Wise up Cuk! You are the one who ignored this message from the koran :-
“Today, I have completed your religion, perfected My blessing upon you, and I have decreed Submission/Islam as the SYSTEM for you.” (Quran 5:3)
But this was what prophet Mohamed said about the Arabs during his time as stated in the kuran –
“And the messenger says,”O my Lord, my OWN people have forsaken the Koran.” (Koran 25:30)
So Cuk, go ahead and neglect God’s messages in the koran. Pray your Arab invented sholat subuh/asr/dzuhr/magrb/isyk and stone worshiping Haj religion will give you salvation. Stick to the traditional translation, and the Arabs will divert you fron the true path.
“And who is more wicked than one who is reminded of his Lord’s verses but he turned away from them, and he forgot what his hands had done. We have made veils upon their hearts from understanding them, and a deafness in their ears. And if you invite them to the guidance, they will never be guided.” (The Message 18:57)
And Cuk, you want to punish me despite these koranic messages below:-
There is no compulsion in God’s orderly way of life (deen)
2:256 There is no compulsion in the orderly way of life. Certainly it is now clear between the guidance from the wrong ones. Thus whoever denies the virtual idols and he believes with God alone – thus – indeed he holds with the strongest bond which can never be broken – for him. And God is listening – He is very conscious.
So who here have rejected koran’s messages. Only Cuk does not realise his folly.
Comment on “Pagan Rituals”.
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Whoa!! Hold your horses.
I am not asking anybody to worship anything.
I am only asking everyone to serve the one God by doing good deeds and be righteous.
how many time did that text repeat itself in the koran? “You will be judged by your deeds alone.”
But I am not surprised Cuk, since all these reactions by those with religion have already being documented in the koran as follows:-
As for your heart –
2:10 In their hearts a disease – thus – God enhances their diseases. And for them – a painful punishment – with whatever they are lying.
But of course, I always ask for evidence of ritual praying if it exist from the koran, but none have given any so far.
2:23 And if you are doubtful from what We have transmitted upon Our servant – then bring forth from one chapter from any example – and call your witnesses from any other than God – if you are truthful.
2:24 And if you cannot do it – and certainly you will not be able to do it – thus prepare for yourself the fire – whose fuel is mankind and the rocks – all set for those who disbelieve.
Your fate in the next life for the faithful, depend on your deeds alone as follows:-
2:25 And deliver the good news to those who believe and to those who do the deeds of righteousness – Most certainly – for them is the garden – flowing from beneath it are rivers. Each of them is provided from it – from the fruits as provisions. They say, ‘this is exactly what was provided from before. And they were given with it which are similar’. And for them in it – mates who are cleansed – and they will abide therein forever.
As you can see, it is not the number of times you worship that matters, unless you bring proof that it does from the koran.
2:62 Indeed, those who believe, and those proclaimed to be guided, and the supporters and the Sobe’ans – any of them who believe with God and the hereafter and do the deeds of righteousness – thus for them the rewards by their Lord – and there shall be no fear over them – and they will not grieve.
As you can see above, you do not have to be in any religion to believe in God and do deeds of righteousness. Any one can do this.
Hence even the wife of Pharoah was a believer as mentioned in the koran.
No verse in the koran mentioned any prophet or believers doing any worship ritual/Haj/fast. So please use your common sense and do not follow your inherited faith blindly.
And many Muslim religionist are like the following verse :-
2:78 And from them they are gentiles and they have no knowledge of the book except through hearsay – and thus its worthless, and only conjectures.
As for the hadith and sunnah :-
2:79 Therefore, censure for those who write the Book with their hands and then they say, “This is as of by God for they wish to transact with its outlay cheaply. Therefore, censure for them from whatever their hands wrote. And censure for them from whatever they do.
2:80 And because they say, “The fire will not touch us except for few days”. Question them, Have you taken by God a pledge – thus God will not break His pledge”? Or do you say about God what you do not know”?
The verse 2:80 is statement to mankind not to speak on behalf of God, like what you did above, as we all have no authority.
My guide is what was stated in the koran.
There are numerous versions out there. If you stick to the traditional version, the chances is that you will not understand the meaning to God’s words. more modern versions have cropped up. Why don’t we all. in our freetime compare the translations from numerous sources.
God tells us not to be led to religious scholars as follows :-
2:104 O you who believe, do not say ‘be our shepherd’ (Ra’inaa), instead say ‘watch over us’ (Un-zur-naa) and be informed. And for those who disobey they deserved severe penalty.
Those who follow their parents’ religion will disbelieve God’s Book
2:170 And when it is said to them, “Follow whatever was transmitted by God”, they say, “Never! We will only follow whatever we found over it of our forefathers”. Although their forefathers never used their common sense – and they were never guided?
2:171 And the example of those who disbelieve is like the example of those who shout with whatever it cannot hear except calling and shouting. Deaf, dumb and blind. Surely they cannot understand.
Need I give more messages from the koran as example.
The Children of israel were saved by God from Egypt, given provisions etc, and yet they trangressed by worshipping a statue of a heifer (cow) when moses was away for several days.
The Arabs on the other hand, fooled billions with their pagan religion. Koran mentioned that the Arabs were hypocrites. So beware!
The islamic religion of today was not what Mohamed delivered. So make up your mind whether to be guided by the koran, or follower of the pagan Arab religion.