Causes of Disunity
Feb 6th, 2009, in News, by Patung
Another East Timor in Papua, lack of development in the province, and racism by other Indonesians towards Papuans.
East Timor Analogy
In January of 2009 an association of Christian churches in Papua, the Persekutuan Gereja-Gereja Baptis (PGBP), sent a letter to President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono complaining about the selection procedure for new employees (CPNS) of the Department of Religion (Depag) in areas such as Keerom, Tolikara, Sarmi, Jayapura and Pegunungan Bintang.
The PGBP appears to believe that Depag takes a disproportionate number of new civil servants who are not native Papuans and not Christian. A spokesman for PGBP said
The Papuan Baptist Church asks that Depag be very careful in maintaining good inter-religious relations because the issue of religion is highly sensitive in Papua.
He believed that there had been some deliberate manipulation of the final intake for new public servants that disadvantaged native Papuans, and that this was in violation of the 2001 Special Papuan Autonomy Act which specified that native people should receive preference in hiring decisions.
The spokesman added that the Department of Religion should not repeat the mistakes it had made in East Timor from 1976-99, which had alienated native East Timorese religious leaders, and helped cause that province to break-away from Indonesia, or else something similar might occur in Papua. antara
Aceh & PNG Analogies
Late in 2008 Frederika Korayn from a Papuan womens’ group asked a seminar in Jakarta
The government is willing to have dialogue with the people of Aceh, why not in Papua?
She went on to complain that since integration with Indonesia conditions had not improved much, with still 80% of Papuan women being in absolute poverty, largely un-educated and with poor health.
The Autonomy Act had been implemented only in limited cases and was largely of no value, and she said that population growth in the province was worryingly slow, that since 1970 the population had only grown by 1.5%, whereas in neighbouring Papua New Guinea growth had been at 10%.
The ‘Other’
At the same seminar Yenny Rosa Damayanti of the Association of Indonesian Legal and Human Rights Aid (PBHI), a non-Papuan, said that Indonesians often regarded Papuans as “the other(s)” because of their different skin complexion and race.
Because of the skin colour and hair we regard them as “the other”, not as brothers.
People needed to think about what constituted an Indonesian and whether the definition included Papuans, she said: tempo
Is it just Malay people? Is it just Muslims?
258 Comments on “Causes of Disunity”
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
However I would prefer if your so-called Brunei friend debate me in this open forum so Indon-Chinese can watch the progress and feel grateful for our Javanese government.
Malaysia tried to follow Brunei’s policy but because of the sizeable Indians and Chinese population (40%) and Sarawakians threatened to break away, it didn’t work. However they didn’t fare too well either. But I will leave that open for later debate. We will concentrate one topic at a time. -
Gadis Brunei says:
Wow! 2 non Bruneians debating issues on Brunei.
AAB,
The rape incident – It was a rumour and doesn’t mean it was true.
The SRC incident – It happened long time ago. Only 1 Chinese was killed. The Chinese community leaders had apologized. No need to bring out old wound.
What is barongsai? You mean Lion Dance? – Our Chinese community had apologized for the noise pollution. It was history. It happened in the 80s.
Sabung Cina – Also history. Happened in the 70s and 80s. I wasn’t even born then.
Traffic accident – The Chinese are the minority. Whether we are at fault or not, saying ‘sorry’ and paying for the damages is not a hard thing to do. Why get killed or lose a limb to get justice?Dragonwall,
Brunei Chinese Citizenship – Keturunan Cina, Cina baba and mixed bumi-Cina are all considered Chinese. 20 years ago, 9 out of 10 were stateless. The figure now is 7 out of 10 stateless because many had migrated to Canada and Australia. For those who can’t afford to go that far, they migrated to Singapore or Taiwan. The good news for the Brunei Chinese is that China had recently asked the Brunei government to clarify our stateless status. I am a 5th generation Cina-Dusun mix and a holder of red ID card. -
schmerly says:
@AAB..
Singaporeans like to be thought of as ‘Bruneian’.
WRONG!! to call a Singaporean a Bruneian is an insult, according to many Singaporeans I’ve spoken to, that’s your problem you assume to much.
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Gadis Brunei.. I’m afraid you won’t get much sense out of AAB, he’s a pompous self opinionated blow hard, who assumes he knows everything.
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Mas/Mbak Schmerly,
You are full of schmers (sh*t).
WRONG!! to call a Singaporean a Bruneian is an insult, according to many Singaporeans I’ve spoken to, that’s your problem you assume to much.
How would an ang mo gau knows? Most Singaporean had this notion of being ‘Bruneian’ to feel upper class; I came across several in Perth and recently, in Monash University.
Re Gadis Brunei’s comment. I am afraid she is backing every claim I made, including exposing Dragonball’s lie that 1 in 30 are stateless.
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sputjam says:
FYI, singapore regularly send their armed forces for training in brunei and brunei has a currency board which [eg its exchange rate to Singapore dollar, something which indonesia should have done years ago since a huge amount of indonesian wealth lies in singapore.
also worth noting is that the currencies of thailand, malaysia and phillipines are at almost similar exchaneg rate for decades.
@ AAB, The singaporeans you met are probably stateless bruneian who had migrated and rceived singapore citizenship.
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@AAB, some singaporens look down on its neighbours, including brunei.
If you had been to some of singapore forums in the internet, malay land (including java) are described by some singaporeans as mudland and malays as muds.
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@AAB..
Most Singaporean had this notion of being ‘Bruneian’ to feel upper class; I came across several in Perth and recently, in Monash University.
Why should they say that when they know Singapore is far more advanced, cleaner, modern, has a higher education, and has one of the lowest crime rates in the world.
So it looks like like your full of BS and as I said, a pompous self opinionated blow hard, who assumes he knows everything.
BTW I’ve been living in Singapore for the last two years, and living and working here on and off for the last ten years, so I do know Singaporeans and what they think. -
@ Gadis Brunei
You sound like an abused victim in your own land.
The debate is to dispel the myth that neighbouring countries treated their Chinese population better than Indonesia. However, the fact is just the opposite. We have Chinese problem because we treated them too well. Indonesia Chinese don’t live in fear. Besides the name-change and ban on Chinese culture (which was necessary to keep them safe), there was no restriction on their daily lives. I am not against Indon-Chinese, but those arrogant kuah sueh huan na attitude that is notably inherent in Singaporean and some cina totok.
My source about Brunei is first-hand and not secondary like Dragonball. I am no stranger to your country. My family being the only Indon expat in the 70s and 80s, I had my early education in Sk. Melayu SUAS, then SM Berakas. Most of my childhood friends were children of government officials. I have extended families in Tutong and Lamunin, and I travelled back and forth for the past 30 years. I am more than qualify to comment.
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@ Sputjam
@ AAB, The singaporeans you met are probably stateless bruneian who had migrated and rceived singapore citizenship.
No, they were born and bred in Singapore. Only been there for few months or years. Their Singlish is just as disgusting as Dragonball’s.
@AAB, some singaporens look down on its neighbours, including brunei.
… are described by some singaporeans as mudland and malays as muds.
Schmerly is not Asian so he can be excused for his ignorance. As fellow Indonesian, you should know better.
– Singaporeans looked down on ALL Malaysians (both Chinese and Melayu);
– Singaporeans looked down on SOME Indonesians (the poor ones);
– But they suck up to ALL Bruneians (Chinese and Melayu). Reason being all Bruneians are considered wealthy, be they Chinese or Melayus.
– Singaporeans suck up to SOME Indonesians (wealthy pribumis and wealthy Chinese).@ Mas/Mbak Schmerly,
Yes, bule knows better. 🙂 Yet we still keep our kids away from bules.
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diego says:
Ok,
So now we have both “noun” and “verb” derived from the nickname of one regular posters in IM. Great.
What about dragonwall? Can someone come up with a definition (noun / verb / adjective) for that “word”?
Let me start:
“dragonwalling” (verb – gerund): talking craps.
Wait, let me log on to urbandictionary.com.
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dragonwall says:
I had seen the sight of the fake latino lick spittling everywhere and then we have the winds of sarcacsm full of hypocritical onset that comprise mostly of ambiguous noise.
First and foremost thing I would like to do and that is he should find something better to do rather than clowning with “sok tau” and speculating with verbs and nouns.
The least you could do is be yourself and doing something concrete for your community which insofar you have not except passing sarcastic remarks at your fellow citizen, most of all, she is a pribumi victim of a rape. But I guess not.
If I were you, I would have gone to such extent as to seeking some kind of justice for her and make sure there is certain remedies to her livelihood. But I guess not because people like you would never change.
So you have fun with your urbandictionary.com
Just as West Malaysians would like to be known as ‘Singaporean’; Singaporeans like to be thought of as ‘Bruneian’.
You don’t find this had already made you a laughing stock? Or perhaps you are considering to start new novel?
I recently met a few Singaporeans in Monash university
You mean you? My, my. I thought all these while you hated the guts of bule and you still goes to Monash University? This is called ai been. After you confirm what I said, next thing is to reflex and be gratuitious for our Javanese government.Whether it is blue or red, what then? Then please go ahead and tell that guy he is unfit to be holding a Singapore citizenship. You can have my backing you all the way.
Hmmm. You should be showing your gratitude to the Australian government for allowing you to enter their country.And one thing there is nothing to be gratifying to the (Javanese Government – must be a new sovereign state. This must be the latest new country in the world perhaps?). Why not the Indonesian Government? No wonder you dare not deny that you are a traitor.
he/she can always debate me in private: aluanganakbayang@hotmail.com
Debate you in private?Ah ha, then the next thing to happen will be another rape perhaps, adding that up to 25 as of 2008 and the number 1 in 2009?
Your other friends – Wandi, DXP and Irene are nowhere in sight. I am afraid they have ditched you.
Throughout the debates, everyone is watching closely trying to figure what kind of a scumbags you are, always evading important issues but keep sticking to you yesterday newspaper cuttings and wikipedia research coupled with fictitious conjectures and boasting about your mathematics and grammar. I will come to the figures later with you and let’s see how well you do in calculating.
However I would prefer if your so-called Brunei friend debate me in this open forum so Indon-Chinese can watch the progress and feel grateful for our Javanese government.
You can’t even handle me and you want me to bring my friends into this blog?
Malaysia tried to follow Brunei’s policy but because of the sizeable Indians and Chinese population (40%) and Sarawakians threatened to break away,
Why would Sarawakans wanted to break? I guess it must be you instigating and provoking with you anti Chinese craps. It didn’t work, so it must be good news.Gadis Brunei Says:
Wow! 2 non Bruneians debating issues on Brunei.Right I am not the one but it is the no-brainer always trying to evade the topic by going into another subject country’s political situation and avoid the humiliation that he is facing. But anyway his skin is thick enough to stand the bashing.
AAB, The rape incident – It was a rumour and doesn’t mean it was true.
I guess he doesn’t know about that and that is why I said he speculated and fabricated to save the humiliation.
The SRC incident – It happened long time ago. Only 1 Chinese was killed. The Chinese community leaders had apologized. No need to bring out old wound.
That is what the Indonesians leaders refused to do and or acknowledge the crime that happened since 1965 pogrom and the mounting riots that happened throughout these years that resulted in the biggest riot that happened in 1998 May 13 – 16. If the government had press hard enough for the justice department and having enforcement agencies to round up all those involved in the crime, then we won’t be here debating the cause of disunity for the Indonesian Chinese and Papuans.What is barongsai? You mean Lion Dance? – Our Chinese community had apologized for the noise pollution. It was history. It happened in the 80s.
But for the Muslims, will they apologize for having loudspeakers in their everyday prayers? They say it is their rights. So a double standard of government statutes were indirectly impose and a direct discrimination became imminent.
Sabung Cina – Also history. Happened in the 70s and 80s. I wasn’t even born then.
This is similar to the 65 pogrom he is referring to and that will never happened again in Brunei but for Indonesia there is a likely possibility that it will repeat having moronic clerics and their so called religious leaders around. These people failed to understand the word hatred and discrimination but kept professing their knowledge to such extent that most of the time it just became fabricated news. They even failed to understand of the Indonesian Chinese living in fear and the constant threat that is prevailing and not surprising that these might be one of the tactics used by politicians in their forthcoming election.
Traffic accident – The Chinese are the minority. Whether we are at fault or not, saying ’sorry’ and paying for the damages is not a hard thing to do. Why get killed or lose a limb to get justice?
It is because people like him who always takes kindness for weakness and in usual case when the victim is a pribumi then the pribumis will always group up in extorting from the Chinese be it Brunei or in Indonesia. Fortunately, the Brunei Head of State is well educated enough to control the Sultanate of approximately 320,000 subjects.
Brunei Chinese Citizenship – Keturunan Cina, Cina baba and mixed bumi-Cina are all considered Chinese. 20 years ago, 9 out of 10 were stateless. The figure now is 7 out of 10 stateless because many had migrated to Canada and Australia. For those who can’t afford to go that far, they migrated to Singapore or Taiwan.
The Chinese population in Brunei is approximately 15% then your figure will definitely showed that there is no such thing as 90%, right? And taking into consideration that many had migrated elsewhere, it will thus bring the figure of the stateless lesser than those comparing to 1986. According to a friend of mine he told me the figures could be even lower than that but nonetheless it makes the fantasy of this idiotic lunatic leave this Brunei issue packed with a bagful of humiliations.
The good news for the Brunei Chinese is that China had recently asked the Brunei government to clarify our stateless status. I am a 5th generation Cina-Dusun mix and a holder of red ID card.
But I guess he will not understand what I said to her earlier.
schmerly Says: WRONG!! to call a Singaporean a Bruneian is an insult, according to many Singaporeans I’ve spoken to, that’s your problem you assume to much. Gadis Brunei.. I’m afraid you won’t get much sense out of AAB, he’s a pompous self opinionated blow hard, who assumes he knows everything.
That is what we called it a debate with speculative assumptions but to her they are facts.
You are full of schmers (sh*t). How would an ang mo gau knows? Most Singaporean had this notion of being ‘Bruneian’ to feel upper class; I came across several in Perth and recently, in Monash University.
This is what he is good at.like ang mo gau in Hokian and literally translated to Red Haired Monkey.
Re Gadis Brunei’s comment. I am afraid she is backing every claim I made, including exposing Dragonball’s lie that 1 in 30 are stateless.
But didn’t this she idiot failed to figure out her final statements together with those that had migrated. Looking into that I guess I rather let you do the figures out. And why would I lie, like what he used to say about that I lied in the Indonesian issues. That is about the best language he used today, no doubt about that.
sputjam Says: @ AAB, The singaporeans you met are probably stateless bruneian who had migrated and rceived singapore citizenship.
So do I suppose he missed that part out on purpose that those had migrated to Singapore from Brunei and study in Australia to validate his claims? Very likely, because no one Singaporean will claim that he is a Bruneian but likely the reverse.
If you had been to some of singapore forums in the internet, malay land (including java) are described by some singaporeans as mudland and malays as muds.
This is what I called speculative assumptions. In Singapore, a number of people call their Malay friends or neighbors “Mat” which is short for Ahmat but otherwise being twisted to be her facts.Why should they say that when they know Singapore is far more advanced, cleaner, modern, has a higher education, and has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. So it looks like like your full of BS and as I said, a pompous self opinionated blow hard, who assumes he knows everything,
She is still living in the Age of the Apes. But how is that apes like her goes to Monash? It must be the peanuts and bananas that attracted her.
You sound like an abused victim in your own land.
Ah ha… back to discrimination issue. Oh really and not the truth? And even if she had been then her 5th generation had brought her to understand better of her country and very unlike what is happening to Indonesian with people like you still living in the shadow of hatred and discrimination and deprivation.
The debate is to dispel the myth that neighbouring countries treated their Chinese population better than Indonesia. However, the fact is just the opposite.
Wrong, because the facts had shown and is present that they manage to change and have treated their own citizens better than Indonesia and quite unlike what is happening to Indonesia harness with the recent implementation of1. The wrongful cancellation of certain laws from the Staatsbald. (2005)
2. Thugs prevail by condoning the presence in their pro Islamic movements
carried out by the FPI.
3. The forceful implementation of Sharia Laws that were passed with lube oil
through Indonesian Parliament.
4. The further discrimination that became more evidential when Christian
minorities were forced to abide by these rules..
5. The Indonesian Government’s failure to bring those criminals and rapists
involved of the 1998 riot to justice, by saying the files were stolen from the
AG’s office, which in fact were shredded deliberately.
6. Failure to bring those instigators, provocateur and mastermind of the 1998
Mass Riots.We have Chinese problem because we treated them too well. Indonesia Chinese don’t live in fear. Besides the name-change and ban on Chinese culture (which was necessary to keep them safe), there was no restriction on their daily lives.
This is not the Chinese’s problem but a pribumi problem. So are the Indonesian Chinese being treated well when you call them rats, the Ministers called them rats? Being force legally to forgo there ancestors and their cultures? And with idiots like you around there won’t be a safe place for them. Any time accidents will happen. And who are you to restrict their movements and please don’t forget that BAKIN, BAIS, BIN had placed intelligence personnel all over in RT, RW, Lurah, and Camat etc. You know the drills so don’t pretend that it is to ‘keep’ them safe
I am not against Indon-Chinese, but those arrogant kuah sueh huan na attitude that is notably inherent in Singaporean and some cina totok.
Every bit of what you say indicates that you are one of the biggest chinese hater and discrimininator. Listen, you she being, you started with the discrimination on the Indonesian Chinese and now you pretended that you are not against the Indon Chinese! By any standard of you statements, they all clearly and notably imply you were not only against the Indon Chinese but all Chinese elsewhere, be it Singapore, Brunei, Malaysia because of you claim on kuah sueh huan na attitude that is notably inherent in Singaporean. This is your personal perceptions just because you disagree with others. Whereas the cina totok it should be the Indonesian Government’s job to ensure that assurance is given that such pogrom that happened some 5 decades age do not and will not happen again. None of such prevails as seen on the existing discrimination that is evidently happening in Singkawang by a Governor.
My source about Brunei is first-hand and not secondary like Dragonball. I am no stranger to your country. My family being the only Indon expat in the 70s and 80s, I had my early education in Sk. Melayu SUAS, then SM Berakas. Most of my childhood friends were children of government officials. I have extended families in Tutong and Lamunin, and I travelled back and forth for the past 30 years. I am more than qualify to comment
I do not profess my expertise on Brunei but from facts that I gathered. And your qualifications backs to only to some 30 years age and that is why you failed to come up with something concrete in the 21 century. No wonder you tried to passed off as Dayaks. And yet you claimed to be at the Monash recently? Schooling? Scooting? Or Smooching?
No, they were born and bred in Singapore. Only been there for few months or years. Their Singlish is just as disgusting as Dragonball’s.
Ha..ha.. like Bo Lam Pa Meh…
Schmerly is not Asian so he can be excused for his ignorance. As fellow Indonesian, you should know better.
– Singaporeans looked down on ALL Malaysians (both Chinese and Melayu);Why? MUst be a reason and a person in particular.
Singaporeans looked down on SOME Indonesians (the poor ones);
Why?
– –But they suck up to ALL Bruneians (Chinese and Melayu). Reason being all Bruneians are considered wealthy, be they Chinese or Melayus
Can you prove that? Brunei’s currency is at par with Singapore. If they were more than par, perhaps that could be a reason but otherwise there is nothing to back your statements.
– Singaporeans suck up to SOME Indonesians (wealthy pribumis and wealthy Chinese).
Oh yes perhaps because you think that the investment Singapore placed in Indonesia is not money well invested but capitalizing on your poor economic situation when your government called for help. Smart move but poorly said! Well considering your IQ you are just about this high DUA INCI.
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Dragie,
If you want to insult me, try to keep it short. To the point.
I had to read your post twice to find “where’s the insult?”. I found none.
Thanks for wasting my time. 😀 -
Forget to add something. The she and he is referring to that particular name calling idiot. So please don’t speculate on that.
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No one asked for your time here.
Did any of my comments consist of insults? Or are you anticipating one? That is why I said that is the best you could do and that is with insults.
I even asked you not to waste your time, because whatever insults you can place is not going to hurt anyone but yourself.
See what a bigger fool you have made yourself.
Prove you to be a trouble maker.
Waiting fo the opportunity to jump into a conclusion and waiting for people to throw insults at you.And if you really understand then it is about time you do something better for yourself.
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@AAB.. It’s obvious in your posts that your seething with envy for anyone or country that’s doing better than you, look around Asia at the booming economies (before the recent financial crisis) Singapore, Hong Kong, South Korea, Taiwan Etc., Etc., the Asian tigers, so what happened to Indonesia? eighteen years ago when I first arrived in Indonesia, people were saying when is Indonesia going to get moving, Indonesia was called the sleeping tiger, well it never happened and in the last ten years or so Indonesia has slid backwards even more, and if you want to know the reason for this just look in the mirror, Indonesians are their own worst enemy, but are very quick to blame everybody else for their woes, it’s funny but I don’t hear other Asian county’s whinging and blaming other people for their problems, apart from Malaysia! Do you get the connection?
Schmerly is not Asian so he can be excused for his ignorance
Yes that’s true I’m not Asian but you are, so why are you so ignorant of what’s going on around you? or perhaps you don’t want to know, being the pompous little runt that you are.
Yet we still keep our kids away from bules.
and what’s this supposed to imply, and what’s this comment got to do with this topic?
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@ AAB.. BTW, Brunei was never classed as an Asian tiger, as all it has is a fairly small population and a lot of oil, but that’s about all, so I don’t think anybody would want to lie about coming from such a boring country as Brunei, unless your some devout Moslem.
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Mas/Mbak Schmerly,
Let’s get back to the topic “Causes of Disunity”.
The argument was about the Chinese treatment in Indonesia vs. Brunei. I argue for our Javanese government, Dragonball for the Melayu government. If only you care to read more than a single post.
Gadis Brunei backed all my claims. Yes it did happened 20 years ago, the Chinese were treated badly in Brunei, and the Chinese apologized for being treated badly. Wherein 20 years ago, Javanese treated their Chinese population reasonably well.
20 years ago, 90% of Brunei-Chinese were stateless.
20 years ago, 0% of Indon-Chinese were stateless.
Currently, over 70% of Brunei-Chinese are stateless.
Currently, 0% of Indon-Chinese are stateless.The evidence are compelling if you care to open your eyes.
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Cukurungan says:
@AAB.. It’s obvious in your posts that your seething with envy for anyone or country that’s doing better than you, look around Asia at the booming economies (before the recent financial crisis) Singapore, Hong Kong, South Korea, Taiwan Etc., Etc., the Asian tigers, so what happened to Indonesia? eighteen years ago when I first arrived in Indonesia, people were saying when is Indonesia going to get moving, Indonesia was called the sleeping tiger, well it never happened and in the last ten years or so Indonesia has slid backwards even more, and if you want to know the reason for this just look in the mirror, Indonesians are their own worst enemy, but are very quick to blame everybody else for their woes, it’s funny but I don’t hear other Asian county’s whinging and blaming other people for their problems, apart from Malaysia! Do you get the connection?
Misteer schmerly,
We do not want to blame anyone about our problem but we are wondering why bule like you always complaint anything in here but even more than 18 years you are still enjoy to live in here …sound to me like you always complain that your wife is not pretty but you f**k her every day
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Will the papuans be treated (discriminated) like the chinese minority by the mojo’s (mojopohit), or will the papuans be treated better?
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@ Cuk..
We do not want to blame anyone about our problem
And your one of the worst offenders, read your own post’s!
sound to me like you always complain that your wife is not pretty but you f**k her every day
Were did I ever complain about my wife?? and thanks for the crude remark, typical from an uneducated pig like you.
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@ AAB
Let’s get back to the topic “Causes of Disunity”.
Yes lets, seeing as you don’t have any answers to my post’s, but never mind I’m used to that from you.
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Mas/Mbak Schmerly,
All you did was to dump unintelligent scrawls here and there, I am not even bothered. Read and understand Javanese philosophy first, then you may be noticed.
Mas Cukurungan tackled you on bule pedophile, and you were left dangling by a thin thread of dental floss. Now you want to open a new debate with me?
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the Asian tigers, so what happened to Indonesia? eighteen years ago when I first arrived in Indonesia, people were saying when is Indonesia going to get moving, Indonesia was called the sleeping tiger, well it never happened and in the last ten years or so Indonesia has slid backwards even more,
More like a toothless Sumatran Tiger, never bother to fight back. All the government officials are bothered is as long as their own pocket is bulging with whatever, rice, oil, rupiah, usd they are happy. Do they care about their poor people? No one bothers about this country except oversized words and back patting.
Indonesians are their own worst enemy, but are very quick to blame everybody else for their woes,
How could they be their own enemy? They are making the Chinese their enemy. Throughout these blogs and comment, remarks nothing is left unscathed about the Indon Chinese.
apart from Malaysia! Do you get the connection?
If she gets the connection and had considered herself to be a person who cared so much about the pribumis and Javanese, then she would not have place herself in every forefront about the riot and discrimination of the Indon Chinese filled with hatred by dropping in a few lines to make Singapore his other scapegoat. If she is left to continue these nonsense then she would have the great feelings that she is right and has the right to bash the Chinese and Indon Chinese.
Yes that’s true I’m not Asian but you are, so why are you so ignorant of what’s going on around you? or perhaps you don’t want to know, being the pompous little runt that you are.
These are her usual rants, but there is one thing like I said. She thinks she can write what she likes, say what she wants except the facts and choose to ignore. This is one great word for Indonesians like her and a few others here in these blogs.
Yet we still keep our kids away from bules. and what’s this supposed to imply, and what’s this comment got to do with this topic?
Because she thinks that all bules are pedophile and pretends that she is trying to keep her kids away for fear of being rape and forgetting the rapes that happened during the 1998 riot. You know full of pretence and that is hypocrates.
so I don’t think anybody would want to lie about coming from such a boring country as Brunei, unless your some devout Moslem.
Fabrication and baseless conjectures. If you look closely into her comment, it clearly says that she is every inch, she has only 2 inch, a staunch bumiputera/pribumi supporter and that all Chinese there are stateless and those Chinese in Indonesia should be made stateless.
This is one very reason why I called her a traitor.
A traitor comes in all styles and forms. This one meant that an Indonesian who claims herself to be a Javanese is not loyal to her country because she rather be a Javanese than an Indonesian. And a person who because of her little advantage being a pribumi hopes in everyway to deprive the Indon Chinese of their rights to be an Indonesian citizen. And this I called her a coward because she would not defend the rights of her own fellow citizen. (she would defend that right for the Indians, Arabs except Chinese)
Let’s get back to the topic “Causes of Disunity”.
Don’t you think this is the very cause of your own disunity? The more you continue to get back to this topic, the more you tend to make it more disunited.
The argument was about the Chinese treatment in Indonesia vs. Brunei.
To me there are no arguments about Bruneians, it is all the while about Indonesian Chinese, but you pick and choose Singaporeans and Bruneians as your target approach to back your so call nationalist perception and that you had treated the Indon Chinese well by comparing them to the Bruneians. You try to show the whole world that the Indon Chinese, the Papuans were not discriminated, hated and are well treated but the actual fact is not. This is call evading the main topic and straying into another to avoid embarrassments and humiliations.
I argue for our Javanese government,
That is also why I called you a traitor because you do not speak for the Indonesian government but claims to be speaking for the Javanese government. Did anyone know if a country or a government called Java existed? Only traitors do that.
Dragonball for the Melayu government. If only you care to read more than a single post.
You can read that left right upside down and that does not even indicate that I am for the Melayu government. So now he is mixing it all up with Malaysia, Brunei and Singapore when he refers Melayu Government. And informative wise, there is no such thing as Melayu government.
Gadis Brunei backed all my claims. Yes it did happened 20 years ago,
You are so stupid to have assume that she backed you up. She is proving to you that you are stupid enough to bring such a small issue into the limelight to support your claim.
the Chinese were treated badly in Brunei,
That is also wrong because if they had then the Chinese will no longer exist there. There are some cases of exception in any country and that is those that had migrated to other countries.
and the Chinese apologized for being treated badly.
This is also wrong because it refers to a small accident and at least the Chinese have the guts to apologize for noise pollution. Tell me who apologize to others in Indonesia for having loudspeakers in their prayers morning, noon and night?
Wherein 20 years ago, Javanese treated their Chinese population reasonably well.
And that is why the pribumis also enjoyed the prosperity they brought about to this country until the 1998 riot where people like you are still clinging to your denials
20 years ago, 90% of Brunei-Chinese were stateless.
20 years ago, 0% of Indon-Chinese were stateless.Wrong, have you look into the Cina Benteng and the SBKRI issue together with their birth certificate? What does that say? They even have difficulties obtain a legal status and that is what?
Currently, over 70% of Brunei-Chinese are stateless.
Currently, 0% of Indon-Chinese are stateless.Wrong again, there are still people’s birth certificates to have the word Keturunan Cina, Catatan Sipil Warga Negara Cina removed.
There are also those Cina Benteng who until today were unable to obtain their KTP let alone SBKRI. There is the Presidential decree to discard the mandatory SBKRI but evidently there are still people in Singkawang who were unable to obtain a passport without a SBKRI. So how do you make of this?
The 15% of 320 odd thousand represents around 50,000 who were considered stateless in 1986. Now is 2009 and the figure today had dropped drastically as some had migrated and some granted. It had then dropped to around between 50 – 70% making that is approximately 25 – 35,000 stateless.
This figures worked out to approximately 10% of the total population of Brunei. So tell me how many out of how many of them are stateless. This is called census and not segregation. And by any standard of an Islamic Nation it is still considered accpetable.
The evidence are compelling if you care to open your eyes.
Right so please OPEN YOUR SIPIT EYES.
We do not want to blame anyone about our problem but we are wondering why bule like you always complaint anything in here
So what is the UN for? You and some others have been all these while been blaming the Indon Chinese for your plight. So who are they going to seek help to get them out of their plights?
but even more than 18 years you are still enjoy to live in here …sound to me like you always complain that your wife is not pretty but you f**k her every day
So you envy his achievements? This is the main problem and the very cause of disunity.
Will the papuans be treated (discriminated) like the chinese minority by the mojo’s (mojopohit), or will the papuans be treated better?
Yes they will continued to be treated that way as long as there is resources where the pribumis felt it rightfully belongs to them because they also feel that the Papuans do not belong to this country similarly to the Indon Chinese.
And your one of the worst offenders, read your own post’s!
A thief is always calling others a thief.
sound to me like you always complain that your wife is not pretty but you f**k her every day
This guy’s wife must have been ugly. So what he does is to cover the face and fire the base.
Were did I ever complain about my wife??
You don’t need to because we should treat dogs in a sty will only make him a hog like what you said typical of an uneducated pig. The Acehnese say PAJU BOI.
Yes lets, seeing as you don’t have any answers to my post’s, but never mind I’m used to that from you.
That is what he is hoping for, and that is so that others don’t understand in order to stray into another topic.
All you did was to dump unintelligent scrawls here and there, I am not even bothered. Read and understand Javanese philosophy first, then you may be noticed.
I am prepared to trade my MBA with the Javanese philosophy and perhaps one day be granted an honorary doctorate degree.
Mas Cukurungan tackled you on bule pedophile, and you were left dangling by a thin thread of dental floss. Now you want to open a new debate with me?
What mas more like copper to me or perhaps rongsok. Both of them are pedophiles, so fortunately he is left dangling on a dental floss otherwise he will fall onto the ground like,
I hear a thud!
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the Chinese were treated badly in Brunei,
That is also wrong because if they had then the Chinese will no longer exist there. There are some cases of exception in any country and that is those that had migrated to other countries.
Dragie, Ni hao meh…?
If we go by your logic: __assuming__ you speak the truth — that indonesians of chinese descent & chinese are treated badly in Indonesia — then there shouldn’t be any more indonesian of chinese descent & chinese in Indonesia, right?
Ok, now let’s start with some facts, we’ll walk through the above statement backward. Ready?
(1) There are lots of indonesian of chinese descent living in indonesia currently.
(2) That means: they’re not treated badly.Those two premises lead us to a single conclusion: you dragonwalled (lied / talked crap) again. Oh, what a surprise.
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Lairedion says:
Bought myself a new fishing rod. Will try it in this “kolam pancing” anytime soon….
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@Lairedion
Ha ha.
But seriously. I mean it, I’m talking serious now. Uhm.
It’s too easy to get dragie takes the bait; the fun is diminishing more and more each day. I was wondering how many indo-chinese will, actually, stand on dragie’s side, supporting all his craps (sorry, I mean, point-of-view)? I doubt there will be many.
I mean, where do all those shoutings from dragie take us (both pribumis and indo-chinese)? I guess nowhere. Let’s just assume for discussion sake that he’s well-intentioned (wanting to improve pribumi-indo-chinese relationship), then what he’s been doing here, in my opinion, is counter productive. The way he address the pribumis, his world-view and attitude, etc only raise resentment toward him…, and (could be) toward indo-chinese as well.
I hope he would stop, and let others — more credible and symphatetic person — do the task, in a much better way.
But I’m afraid he wouldn’t stop. Going grawl grawl grawl just like a rabid dog (which reminds me of some scenes from “I’m a Legend” movie). Sad.
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Yeah JP next time buy a better fishing rod. Who knows you might fish a toad. You can’t fish a piranha or a porcupine.
Walk straight and don’t bent over.
that indonesians of chinese descent & chinese are treated badly in Indonesia — then there shouldn’t be any more indonesian of chinese descent & chinese in Indonesia, right?
Lets put yourself in the shoes of a Chinese Indonesian for a while and don’t pretend to behave like a bencong. Go straight.
If you are a Chinese, not holding an Indonesian passport, no money (noting that 90% of the 5% of the population are farmers or poor Chinese) what can you do? You have the answer, right! Stay or Go.
On the other hand if you are a Chinese, holding an Indonesian passport had some money or has money where can you go? You can go as far as you get a visa to the other country and stay for as long as the visa allows you to. After that where will you go? You also have the answer, right!
You can continue to find out all the “ifs and buts” but the real thing is that it will come to the same claiming that the Chinese in Indonesia is being well treated.
Asked yourself one question again.
How would you feel born in Indonesia, holding a birth certificate with the words not Indonesian but Warga Negara Cina? With your KTP differentiating your religion? This is one way to indicate that the person is not pribumi.
Is that discrimination and in violation of Human Rights.
You guys were out there to championed Human Rights, so please swallow that if you can’t give a reasonable explanation.
Is my explanation clear enough to let you understand that your conclusion below had just become invalid!
(1) There are lots of indonesian of chinese descent living in indonesia currently.
(2) That means: they’re not treated badly.So
This lead us to one single conclusion: you no brainer fake latino talked crap again. without introspecting into the real problem but insisted on face value that the Indon Chinese have equal rights as the pribumis.
Oh, what a surprise. But not surprising with words coming out from the mouth of people filled with filth.
SO BENT OVER NOW WITH YOUR HEAD FORWARD. Two things will happened.
Kowtow or get screwed in the back.
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What about the 1 in 30 are stateless? As a lawyer wannabe, you should not agree with me regardless. hahaha.
Comment on “Causes of Disunity”.
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Pak Dragonball yth,
Comon, what colour id card he/she has? If he/she don’t know what I am talking about, I can understand why there is no id.
Just as West Malaysians would like to be known as ‘Singaporean’; Singaporeans like to be thought of as ‘Bruneian’. I recently met a few Singaporeans in Monash university who said they are Bruneians. When prompted further, their the lack of knowledge of the country exposed them and they confessed their parents worked there for few months. This is called ai been. I believe your so-called friend is a fake Bruneian because he don’t even has an id. Ask him about ‘sabung cina’, the SRC incident, ask him if some Melayus dented his car, whether his fault or not, the mata sepet had to pay otherwise no police potection if you walked out the street. At the same tme ask yourself again, do the Javanese government do that to their Chinese population? After you confirm what I said, next thing is to reflex and be gratuitious for our Javanese government.
Once you confirm the identity of your so-called Brunei friend, we will go to the rape incident, the SRC, the Barongsai, and sabung cina. If your Brunei friend is afraid of being monitored, he/she can always debate me in private: aluanganakbayang@hotmail.com
Your other friends – Wandi, DXP and Irene are nowhere in sight. I am afraid they have ditched you.