Enemies of Islam
Oct 25th, 2006, in News, by PatungFaith can overcome the enemies of Islam, says a preacher in Bogor.
Muslim cleric Ahmad Degel delivered some old time religion at his Idul Fitri sermon at the Bogor Botanical Gardens on the 24th, saying that faith was a powerful weapon indeed against the enemies of Islam, the countries of the West, because it put God in the Muslims’ corner:
Besides sophisticated weapons, faith is the most powerful armour against the enemies of Islam because God has promised to help those who have faith.
He is said to have claimed that strong faith could defeat attackers even though they wielded superior armaments. The Palestinians had shown this, he said:
With rocks the Palestinian people have been able to defend their country from the attacks of Zionist Israel.
The West, according to the preacher, was currently engaged in all-out war against Islam, and he advised sticking together, and strong faith, as a way of withstanding the assault.
Muslims unity is a must. Let us struggle together to strengthen our unity and faith.
106 Comments on “Enemies of Islam”
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Tomaculum says:
Hello again Czeslaw,
first: a dark forrest seems always scaring from outside. But if you are already in it, you will see many beautiful things and you will often find that it is not so hair-rising as you thought.
If you visit Indonesia and talk with the people, you will find out, that there are still friendly, prying, non zealots people living there. My european wive, my children and I were last August in Indonesia to visit our relatives. Believe me, I have had more fear and worries as I was willing to admit it.I was a little bit surprised, that the people we met, are all “normal”. I didn’t see and didn’t feel any animosity. I am sensitized against such things by my experiences in my live in Indonesia and Europe. Want I want to say is, that not all of Indonesian Moslems are zealots, these people still have the ability to think and to act humanly (in the positive meaning). These people don’t ask about your religion. Many of them don’z even have the time to do this, they just want to earn money for living. Why not trying? Every experience is worth to go.
Not all Moslems want to convert every “pagan”. I know many of them who don’t ever take this word in their mouth. They just have an other interpretation of the Quran and Hadit’s as some people do. They are for me the real Moslems and not such who blast their own brain in the name of religion or who slaughter inocent defenseless girls also in the name of their religion. There are many Indonesian Moslems condemning those misdeeds openly. Off course there are many too, which directly or indirectly agrre with this criminal acts.Why I discuss with you in this way? Every drop of understanding is worth to reach. we can’t change the world with it, but maybe you and I can tell 2 or 3 more of our friends about understanding.
Like you, my anger about those misdeeds and criminal acts of those zealots are very huge, but not the religion is to blame.
Why only I am giving you some insight of the Indonesian life? I don’t know, Czeslaw. Maybe because some of them just live in their narrow limited microcosmos, some other are perhaps not able to analize their experiences with sanity and the next group maybe already brain washed and don’t want to see around. I don’t know.
Czeslaw,
I have read some books about the second WW. I didn’t compare the methodes of the partisans to those of the Hamaz or Hizbollah. But the reason of their struggle is, I think, compArable, isn’t it?
Thanks for your information about those books. I will buy it. -
Munafikbangetloepade says:
But we have Putin in Soviet Union, we have this Ill-Pong, the II or whatever in N Korea, we have this little green man in Teheran, and we have Hamaz,…
Ill-Pong … hmm…. I knew her personally. She was my best friend in the kindergarten where we use to study. Her parent used to work in a Korean owned electronic company in Cikarang. Then after 2 years of knowing each other (we attempted to make love), her parents took her back to Korea. I cried.
I didn’t know she is a Moslem… (though she always refused roasted suckling pig that my mom made for us — I thought she was a Jew… but I had no guts to ask her directly, afraid that she will accuse me of being anti-semite by asking about her Jewishness).
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Czeslaw says:
Muslim cleric Ahmad Degel delivered some old time religion at his Idul Fitri sermon at the Bogor Botanical Gardens on the 24th, saying that faith was a powerful weapon indeed against the enemies of Islam, the countries of the West, because it put God in the MUSLIMS’ corner:
Well, since this wonderful cleric started this column, lets give some attention to the cause of this column.
1. Why are you Mr Degel, blame “west” for all of Islamic sickness, injustice, prejudice, kidnaping, hostages beheadings, murders, and all the poverty Islam is causing in Indonesia today?
2. Have you red any other books except koran?
3. Is your education limited to reading koran 20 years ago?
4. Why is your opinion based completely on the envy, hate and religion and national prejudice against the “west”? Is this the only tool you have to manipulate poverty stricken Indonesian people?
5. Mr Degel, if not the evil west, you will still
– be walking behind the camel somewhere between Medina and Mecca, and
– will be picking up camel’s dong, dry it, and bake it next day and eat it, like Islamic nomads and beduins are still doing it today for that past few thousand of years.
– your brave Islam stricken jihadists will have no chance to tape and record the beheadings of hostages they kidnaped
– your brave jihads would not be able to show it on TV. Actually Muslims are killing others MUSLIMS for watching TV. That is little bit confusing to me.
– your Islam stricken jihads will drive camels or walk on foot, instead of driving Toyota or Mercedes trucks
– your brave islmist jihadists would throw stones at each others till today, and at the west, instead of using automatic rifles
– your brave jihadists would use camel curiers to pass the information from Median to Mecca and other terrorist places, instead of the telephone, fax machines, and internet
– your brave jihadists and you will have to fly on the magic carpets on your terror meetings, instead flying the Jumbo Jets made by west evils.Mr Degel, which technology have Islam created, developed and implemented to fight the west evil?
Hate, bigotry, beheadings, terrors, mass murders and crud oil. Am I missing any?
6. Mr Degel, why don’t you get busy with own fallen and miserable life, and leave Indonesian people alone?
Because you will not make on your own. You need to feed on victims blood, as your ancestors were doing for more than a millennium. Poor and miserable you…and hopeless your victims…
People like you are the biggest enemies of not only Islam, but other people as well.
Or, perhaps you graduated from same law school as Indonesian attorney general Saleh? I wouldn’t be surprised.
A lots of poor MUSLIMS in Indonesia, but easy money. Isn’t Mr Degel?
This makes me think, maybe Islam and MUSLIMS are not that bad, but people like Mr Degel and his pal attorney general Saleh, Osama, Arafat, etc., are the source of that all hate, bigotry, sufferings, murders etc., Maybe by abusing these poor Muslim folks they benefit financial from those poor MUSLIMS?
I do not know a single “westerner” who would harm a peaceful Muslim or whatever. But I know many MUSLIMS who are ready to kill any westerner they could just bacuse is in style in Islam infacted countries to kill, kidnap, behead a hostage. Look at Hamaz, Al-Qaeda, Hizbollah and other psychopaths there!
Mr Degel, would mind to response to my comments, or you will keep hiding behind a woman’s or child’s back which is normal for a brave Jihadists to do?
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Should be number 1 in your “What is the solution to Palestine situation” ideas:
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Stop bombing palestinians, so that they have chance to improve their quality of life and develop their children without fear, to have a chance to give them a better education, etc etc.
—Well, that’s just an opinion from animist. I don’t know if your talmudic literature tells you that only Jews have the right to live (others worth no more than animals).
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Tomaculum
Czeslaw, I have read some books about the second WW. I didn’t compare the methods of the partisans to those of the Hamaz or Hizbollah. But the reason of their struggle is, I think, compArable, isn’t it? Thanks for your information about those books. I will buy it.Tomaculum, first of all,
– the freedom fighters, the partisans fight the enemy, not women and children.
– The freedom fighters, the partisans do not kill women and children.
– The freedom fighters do not use children and women for their own means. Although, keep in mind, that Polish boy and girl scouts fought occupying nazi and communism forces in Poland during WW II. But in no case this can be compared the way Palestinians are killing their own children. Polish children never were brain washed to kill any one etc.. This can be a whole different topic.
– The freedom fighters and partisans, they always stood for political reasons. Non religious brain washing here. Kill all of your military enemies, but not kill because some one is Protestant, Buddha, Muslim, easterner, westerner, from south or north, etc.. MUSLIMS are breaking all freedom fighters and partisans rules of conduct. They have chosen war crimes and terrors rather than fight against their enemies.You can not do both, you have to chose what you want to do. The Islamists have chosen war crimes path to their means, and it shows it as a huge failure.
– Freedom fighters and partisans never put women panties over their faces to mask them selves. as Islamic jihadists are doing. Criminals lawys mask them selves.
– Freedom fighters, and partisans always wear their brigade/army emblems. Cowards always cover their faces, use terror tactics on civilian, and that is distinguishing them from freedom fighters and true partisans.Tomaculum, the only reason for freedom fighters and partisans is to free their people and their land, let say in this case Palestine. So, why Hamaz, Al-Qaeda and Hizbollah are tide together in international terrorism, kidnaps and hostage beheadings? Now you see the difference between true freedom fighters and true partisans?
Aha, but attacking let say enemy military barrack and enemy military bases etc., that is a different story. That is major contribution to eliminate these foreign objects by freedom fighters and true partisans. This is a must. No religious cleansing in the name of Allah here please.
But mixing terrorism with these activities of freedom fighters and true partisans is eliminating the true meaning of freedom fighters and partisans. It turns freedom fighters and true partisans into war criminals and terrorists. Islam have chosen terrorism and war crime instead of freedom fighting.
No mixes, just clean slate, fight military enemies, free your land. Pay the price with your own blood like true freedom fighters and partisans did during WW II in Europa.
I red when they bomb the Al-Zarquawi hide house, and the army came to pick up what was left, ZarqawI was still alive. And whet he tried to do? He tried to escape! I couldn’t believe it. No fight, no shoot fire from famous jihad hero, just tail between the legs and run like a poor dog. What is more surprising, he become Islamic hero jihads for it. I can not believe it. I never heard such a absurd story of “heroism”. Zarqawi, pitiful laughable war criminal
As I understand, you married an Indonesia woman? Bravo! My greatest wishes to prosperity and happiness to both of you!!! Just make a lots of babies, alright!
I am a book eater, if you send some recommendation, I will eat them too.
I am very glad that I found a soul mate on Indonesia Matters with whom I enjoy blogging. ;-))
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Author: Munafikbangetloepade
Comment:
But we have Putin in Soviet Union, we have this Ill-Pong, the II or whatever in N Korea, we have this little green man in Teheran, and we have Hamaz,”¦Munafikbangetloepade, I am not talking about your girls friend and her prefer dishes either.
This Ill-Ping-Pong Kim the II of N Korea I had on my mind.
Nazism fell because democracy was allowed into the German mind. Looke at the Germany today is World leading economical power.
Look at Islam and communist dominated countries. What you have got?
– Poverty
– Misery
– No human rights
– murderOf course, the west is behind Islamic and communist misery. Phhhh”¦
Communism under Putin, and this Ill-Pong sick psychopath Kim the II are still the relics of the fallen system of Das Kapital by Karl Marx.
Islam under koran is a copy of communism failure.
communism like Islam still thrives on keeping people repressed, oppressed and abused, and manipulated by the fear of terror and repression and murder.
Munafikbangetloepade, It is too bad that it didn’t work out with your Jewish/Korean girls friend.
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1ndra says:
Czeslaw :
If you’re thinking that Islam is order Muslims to kill nonMuslim, then you’re misinterpret it, or maybe you dont read enough, Koran, it’s exegenesis and the Hadith, nothing inside them ordering to start a war, first kill and you name it.
Even killing civilian is a big sin, it’s one of hadith I knew.
Defend if you’re being attacked that the only one. Even jihad is not the meaning of killing only.
If you’re read enough Koran, then please quote a statement from Koran that fulfill your comments. Because as far as I can read, you’re quoting people, and only bad people, not the Koran itself.
I know a hadith from Muhammad saw, “If you kill nonMuslim people then you’ll face with me”. Then why there’re much Muslims dont take his words?
Just dont ask me, I’m one of people who take his peaceful hadith, and live friendly and peacefully wth my Christian, Hindu and other nonMuslim neighbours. -
1ndra, thanks for your point of view. Just look at this column and how it started. Read this:
This is at the top of this blog column:
The West, according to the preacher, (Muslim cleric Ahmad Degel ) was currently engaged in all-out war against Islam, and he advised sticking together, and strong faith, as a way of withstanding the assault.
MUSLIM unity is a must. Let us struggle together to strengthen our unity and faith.
1ndra, “..let us straggle together…”. If that be true as this poor fellow of hate Muslim cleric Ahmad Degel is pushing to sell, please name one westerner who have killed Muslim in Indonesia, Egypt, Saudi, Pakistan, Palestine etc., etc..
I am westerner to you. I am infidel to you. But I have a heartfelt wish, that Islam will sent own children to school to educated them, not on a suicide mission.
I am infidel to you, I will never take a rifle and run to Indonesia or where ever to kill MUSLIMS to fullfil Muslim cleric Ahmad Degel hate preaching. He is doing more harm to you, that I ever would consider my self to harm you or other MUSLIMS.There are two choices, I am laying to you right now, or your Muslim cleric Ahmad Degel and a likes are pulling wool over poor Muslims eyes.
How many westerners invaded Bali, before Islam jihads blew them up? What happen to him? He was released by your Indonesian attorney general Saleh. What happen to Mr. Tibo, Mr DeSilva and Mr Riwu? They were sentenced to dead for what, excuse me?
Your attorney general Saleh gave the reasons, “…If this man will not be executed it will violate Islamic principals…” What a law… Any other reasons that you know why these man were murdered for by Indonesian Islamic regime?
Do you know about the case status of these three Indonesian school girls who were kidnapped and were beheaded by Indonesian Islamists?
Was some one arrested, persecuted, convicted and sentenced in the court of law in Indonesia for these there young lives wasted for the hate reason?
What is court of law in Indonesia? Ask Attorney General Saleh, he read a page or two from koran, 20 years ago and he may have some idea. You never know. He was not able to find your quote of koran that do not allow killings. He didn’t find the quotes in koran that promote honesty. Are there any words like this in koran?
Take your koran and compare with what Saleh have. Most likely you have two or more korans. One for you and one for attorney general Saleh. The rest of Indonesians were given still another version of korans, etc., etc., etc.
I believe that you would benefit greatly if you would spent some time and study the history of Islam. Learn truth about koran history. You do not have to change your believes. But just learn about it to make sure that what you believe in, is that you know is right and honest, and really exists.
To get you going: First written version of koran came out over 200 years after Mohammed’s death. The second oldest version in existence today was written about 350 years after Mohamed’s death. Most ayatollahs and mullahs know about it. but did you know it?
Which word in koran, Mohamed have written by himself? None. He was illiterate uneducated poor nomad fellow. He could not read, nor write, nor add, or subtract. That is the fact.
Which words Mr Mohamed dictated to a scribe to write in the koran? Point me to a single word, if you will, please. If one word was written to the koran and was recorded in koran at that time, Mr Mohamed would be about 260 years old. He died at age of about 50++.
Ask your mullah or ayatollah or any cleric to show you the word Mr Mohamed have said himself. Do not believe infidel like me, believe in what you believe, or you think you believe.
Still, be Muslim, it doesn’t matter to me or any western infidels.
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Once again Czeslaw:
the intention of their fights is to my opinion the same. But you’re right, the Hamaz and Hizbollah f.e., besmirch their righteous aim by their inhuman and scrupulous methodes, which I definitely condemn. Those people are already brain washed by their leaders and also by their life experiences as opressed citizen. You know surely, that anger, bitterness, desperation and the absence of perspectives can transmute us to a conscienceless inconsiderate terrible beast. But this off course is in no case an apologize for their deeds. And to those partially inhuman misdeeds belongs the abuse of their religion.About my marital situation: it is vice versa. My wife is european and I am an Indonesian born mixed blood (javanese and Chinese).
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munafik-bangetloepade:
You wrote to my comment:
Stop bombing palestinians, so that they have chance to improve their quality of life and develop their children without fear, to have a chance to give them a better education, etc etc.
I can not agree more that what you said, how truthful it is, but also please add to it, do not load your children with TNT and do not send your Palestinian children on suicide missions. Send them to schools, educated them! Also say to other Islamic countries say Saudi, Syria Iran etc., etc., etc. not to abuse and manipulate Palestinians.
You wrote:
Well, that’s just an opinion from animist. I don’t know if your talmudic literature tells you that only Jews have the right to live (others worth no more than animals).
I am not Jew, but I read talmud as well as I read koran, and many other religions teachings and philosophies.
Friend, no one have exclusive rights to live on this earth.
You just hate Jews, semites, etc., but still, that’s is your right to express your self, to express your own believe, and exercise your rights to a free speech. Well, but if hate is all that interests you, if that is all that your intelligence allows you to express, hmm. well…
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Tomaculum,
haa haa haa. I am kind of laughing at my self here, I am sorry for mixing it, but it was not intensional, and I hope your turned it as a funny and friendly miss-hop on my part. If I offended you, I am sorry. But still I stick to what I said earlier, make wonderful babies any way!Well, as far as the argument goes about the Hizbollah and Hamaz, that is okay with me that you keep your position, and let me know more of your personal views on the issues.
I am glad that you and I are on the same page as far as the murders and killings are concerned. That is more important, than the small technical matters.
Tomaculum, the Polish people were oppressed by communist soviets for more than 50 years, the last time. Millions of Polish man, women and children were murdered during WW II. However, we never took that excuse and started to kidnap and beheadings, or other violent acts against anyone. Neither did Hungarians, Czechs, Lithuanians etc., etc.. So why Islam diferres from us?
So, I believe that the excuses your mentioned for their behavior, that they were this or that, are not real reasons for their behavior. I am not try to say that you defend them. No.
I think that the Islamination of the world is their goal at all costs. I may be wrong. Look at this poor miserable anti human things, the little green man in Teheran. Than compare him to his communist counter part in N Korea. Try to find a difference!
Kill, kill, kill”¦
Islam-communism-Islam-communism, kill all, kill all. What is going on with them?
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Tomaculum
I will come back here to your last comment once more:How come you can think straight?
I do not believe that all of your life you was fed on the silver plate with the golden tea spoon either. Even if I am wrong about it, still your mind is straight and normal, which will qualify you as an infidel in their eyes, and great candidate for beheading.
You could generate many “excuses” for violance as they do, why don’t you do so? What is holding you back?
I am just trying to get the feel that your human feelings and instincts are keeping you on the right track of humanity, which is a real treasure!
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Do you know Economic Hit Men Czeslaw?
Do you know about de-Muslim-ing here Czeslaw (I’d rather use that word in order not to offend other religions)? -
Peace says:
Someone needs to be Polish-ED 😀
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Karlira Kanakahuko says:
Enemies of Islam is Ahmad Degel because he imposes war and hatred towards humanity. Ahmad Degel is the discriminator. Ahamad Degel should be blacklisted in the world and he should go to hell, if he hates any non-Muslim people.
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Hassan says:
czeslaw: you can repeat over and over again (seriously, are you trying to bore us to death?) the crimes allegedly done by Muslims, but that doesn’t change the fact that it was Christianity, and not Islam, as the religion which had claimed more human lives in recorded history.
i didn’t had the time to read all of your spams but I had managed to catch some glimps of your vocabulary. i noted that you called other people and their faith as: bustards, evil, scum, murderers, etc. czeslaw, that tells us a lot of your nature and personality. which is not good, i can assure you. that also tells alot of your credibility.
I also remembered that (in one of your posts on the other threads) you said that Muslims are the “virus” of the world. didn’t your role model adolf said that about the Jews some decades ago? tell me, what is the difference between you and your tone and that of the legendary fascist??
you claimed to had used up 12 years of your live to study Islam, but i’d say either you’re not a bright student, or you’re not a bright student. the 12 years doesn’t serve justice on your apparent shallow knowledge of the subject at hand. maybe you’re lying about the 12 years? maybe it was more like 12 days?
-Islam and communism are actually two opposite sides. communism doesn’t believe in God. Islam deeply believed in the one true God.
-the Quran and mein kampf is not even remotely the same. tell me, honestly, have you ever read any of those two. i seriously doubt it.
-Muhammad is not a common name on the early days of Islam. it was well known that Muhammad was first used by the parent of the Islamic prophet for their son. only afterwards the name Muhammad became a common name for Arabs. you should seriously double check your “research”.
-the Quran was not founded 200 years after Muhammad’s death. it was first compiled in a matter of years after his death, by the second caliph, umar bin khattab. the bible, on the other hand, was compiled about 350 years after Jesus’ death by the nicene council.that was just some of your mistakes that i got after taking mere glimps of your statements, I can’t imagine how long the list will be had i read all of your spams.
for a self proclaimed scholar, your studies are not convincing at all. your “facts” sounded more like the standard anti-Islamic propagandas. ahh, I believe you’re an aspiring orientalist being promised heaven by your church if you spread hatred towards other religions. which reminds me of Riccardo and Ismail.
anyway, what you said won’t matter in the end, it will only show to everyone how horrible you really are on the inside. I don’t know why so many people are so proud to show how hateful they really are to the whole world these days.
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Mr Hassan, good try…
if, kidnaping and beheading of these three Indonesian school girls, is the front face of your core believe, then….
if, kidnaping and beheading of hostages, is the front face of your core believe, then….
if, hijacking planes, is the front face of your core believe, then….
if you believe that what Islam is doing as per above, then we are on the opposite sides that is for sure.
I can not findy anywhere that you condemend this crimes against humanity.
to the rest of the world, those who you denfend above, these who are doing these crimes against humanity are, and I will repeat, are the worst scum that ever roamed this little planet.
Your position on this subject shows who you really are.
Kidnaps, terrors, beheadings are symptoms of serious mental disorder which infected Muslim people, and you.
On the koran history, on the Das Kapital, and Mine Kampf you have no clue. I haven’t red either one.
I do have hard copies of Das Kapital, Koran and Mein Kampf on the shelves on my privet small library. Sorry, to disappoint you again, I red them all three several times.
Since you did not have experienced communism, how do you know that it is not same as nazism and Islam? Your ayatollah or attorney general Saleh told you so? Their education do not extend much beyond koran. That is why we have the “law and order” the way it is in Indonesia. Islamic Indonesian regime is killing non-Islamic population of Indonesia at will.
I am not slamming down MUSLIMS, here either. They are brain washed like the communist subject were then in Europa, and the current communist victims in your favorite pleases of peace N. Korea, or Saudi or Afghanistan or Iran, or Palestine, let say
You knowledge of koran is also pretty limited as well. Your peaceful koran teaches and forces you to, Islam believer, you have to:
1. convert me to Islam, or
2. tax me, so I pay tribute to your ayatollah, mullah, or
3. Slain me, as unconverted infidel.These were the basis and foundation of Ormian extermination in 1915-1923 by Islamic principals mentioned above, pretty similar to the ones Indonesian attorney general Saleh, used to butcher Mr. Tibo, Mr. Riwu, and Mr DeSilva.
As a Muslim you have to follow koran. If you don’t you suck as a Muslim.
Mr., whatever your ayatollah or mullah is squeezing into your brain about koran, can not be supported and proved by the actual and historical findings. But, you can have your own way, that is your human right. No one in free world have problem with it.
Also, Mr., here in Europa, Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin or Islamo followers in this same category never were any “idols” to any one. So, do not air your hate in this direction. It is not working.
Islam, Nazism and Communism are this same things, but use different ways and means of accomplishing this same objectives:
1. Brain wash people
2. Control people
3. Convert people to its own means, needs and ends
4. Execute (eliminate) those who opposeAs far as the religious cleansing, by far, and prove me wrong by numbers and dates and places, that there is in human history other than Islam, who murdered more that Islam did:
1. 1915-1923 GENOCIDE/EXTERMINATION of Ormians by Islamic Young Turks. About 2,000,000 (Two millions) of Ormians butchered by Islam.
2. from year 2000 so far at Darfur over 200,000 people butchered there by Islam
3. Conquest of southern Europa during Islam expansion in Europa. People we thrown by Muslims into hot and boiling oils, and were killed that way. All villages in Spain were slain! Some Spaniards and scholars count the victims of more than 1,000,000 Spanish man, women and children were murders by Muslims those years of Islamic occupation and repressions.
4. In WW II Husseini joined Hitler with his Islamic army and butchered non Islamic children and women and man in the Balkans. Over two million people were butchered by Muslims-Nazis then and there.
5. It is believed, by scholars, that between AD 900 till early 1,700s the expansions and conquests of African countries by Muslims took several millions of lives. Not many scholars agree on numbers however.
And here, I do not say, that “Christianity” have clean hands either. I studied Islam and Christianity and many other religions on this same level. The point is not who is right, me or you, but what are that factual and historical facts.
In my book Mr., killing one person for whatever reason, is killing one person to much.
Mr Hassan, read a book or two, then say a word or two….
With best wishes, your infidel Czeslaw.
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Karlira Kanakahuko”¦
“¦right on the money, but add to the list at least the Indonesian attorney general Saleh.
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Josef says:
Isn’t it great how religion brings out the Love……
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czeslaw: in my book, anyone who calls others as a “virus” or the “scum of this earth” and beleved that was the truth, is a hard core fascist. adolf hitler called the Jews as a “virus” and the “scum of this earth” too, and he also deeply believed in that. you my fascist friend, belonged to the same category pound per pound with your dear adolf, whether you are willing to admit it or not.
i remembered that you once said that what got you hooked into Indonesia matters is the tibo cs. case. and here you are, not talking about some tibo case, but unveiling some gross fascistic manifesto. calling others as viruses and scum of this earth, calling Indonesians to massacre Muslims ala the holocaust. all i can say is: HAIL HITLER!!
what you had said are pure gestapo materials. if you said you hated the nazis, stalinists, and co. then how come you are trying soo hard to immitate them?? maybe you’re one of those neo-nazi punks, trying to proof your worth to the new third reich. deny it as you want, but that is how it looks like.
czeslaw, to me the “scum of this earth” are bigoted, fascist slash racists like you, and not some God-fearing people.
FYI, we don’t have any ayatollahs or mullahs here, smart guy, you should know that by now. do not stereotype people czeslaw, our education here goes beyond everything, except the Quran (unfortunately). Indonesia is a secular state after all. didn’t your scholarly studies showed that?
you don’t seemed like a person who had been studying religions for 12 years, you seemed more like a person who had studied HATE and fascistic manifestos for 12 years.
you obviously never read the Quran as it never taught as you said:
1. convert me to Islam, or
2. tax me, so I pay tribute to your ayatollah, mullah, or
3. Slain me, as unconverted infidel.the truth had many facets, maybe you’re not seeing it from a good angle. maybe you WANTED the Quran to sound like that. that is what bigots do, they always try to see the good things in a bad way.
the victims of the two world wars, the inquisitions, the crusades, the conquistadors, the imperialism era, the hiroshima and nagasaki, and Iraq and afghanistan to name a few will easily surpass any numbers you can give me. those were not done by Muslims, infact it was done by Christians. btw, your unconfirmed numbers seemed to had been enlarged for obvious reasons, and you can’t add what the nazis had done to the tally either.
lastly, you had proven to be a persistent fascist slash racist, and you even deeply believed that it was the right thing to do. now tell me, would the Jews talk or forgive to hitler after he called them as a virus and the scum of this earth? I guess not.
go take you fascistic comments back to auswitz, tell the dead there that there are a new form of virus and new scums of this world. i ain’t having any more of your manifestos. fascists sickens me.
we are not talking about the tibo case anymore, right? why are we still talking?
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Mr Hassan,
Adolf Hitler never had any friends in Poland. I am Polish. In case you didn’t know, he didn’t had to many friends in Germany either. Hitler killed as many Germans for nothing like your Indonesian Islamic regime presidents and your oratory genus attorney general Saleh all combined did.So, your education and intellect right here shows all of your glory.
I addressed as a scum and virus of this planet, the persons who are using some religion believes to their own ends and their own means.
There are not many more scum and viruses of the higher quality of scum than adolf hitler, joseph stalin, pol-pot, to name just few. However, in the later years many “Islam/Muslim” brick heads are catching up with their idols, named above. Indonesian attorney general Saleh, your peace loving president, Osama bin Laden, and zarqawi, to name few.
I am not surprised that you yell Hail Hitler, Zeig hail today! There were a lot of same breed of Muslims under Husseini command in WW II in Balkans. They are responsible for the deaths of more than 1,000,000 non-isalmic people. So, it seem like history repeats it self agin.
Mr Hassan, it seem like we both have two different korans. One was written for non-MUSLIMS, and one was written for MUSLIMS. One was pout together over 200 years after Mr Mohamed death, the other one was put together abut 350 years after Mr Mohamed’s death. To which one do your refer in your scholarly journeys, Sir?
In either case, I encourage you to read, I mean read it from cover to cover, not one or two suars, or little bit here, and little bit here. Read the whole damn thing. Will you?
Mr Hassan, I didn’t study koran to be converted to Islam. I studied it, as a part of historical facts, along teachings and philosophies of other religions. I studied about koran from the scholar point of view, not as a religion. I studied non-Islamic and Islamic works about koran. To me it doesn’t matter who and why believe in koran, or any other religion.
Mr. Hassan, to even little bit understand about koran, and the originality of Islam, one have to study first the origins of Arabian nomadic and beduin tribes. Without it, you do not qualify to open your uneducated opinion in public.
As far as Mr. Tibo, Mr. DeSilva, and Mr Riwu are concerned, please be advised that these man were treated and murdered by your Islamic regime in Indonesia, as there were many German people who were treated and murdered this same way by Nazi regime under adolf hitler in Germany
That is why I say, that this type of “Islam” is a hybrid of nazis and communist viruses.
——–
Mr Hassan, these are your words:
the truth had many facets, maybe you’re not seeing it from a good angle. maybe you WANTED the Quran to sound like that. that is what bigots do, they always try to see the good things in a bad way.
The truth do not have any other shades of truth, except truth itself, Mr Hassan.
Politicians and religious leaders sometimes have problems with this fact.Koran is as bad written as are let say Das Kapital by Karl Marx, and Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler. None of these books have any consistency or any logical direction. Definitively, any philosophical meanings are omitted in these three books.
If you still want to call me a bigot, and bigot’s spells with a single “g”, that is your right to do so. I wish, that people in Indonesia will not end up murdered like Mr Tibo, Mr. DeSilva, and Mr Riwu, were murdered for expressing their own opinions, as you do right now. So, as you can see, there is still a long way for MUSLIMS to see the truth. I mean, the truth.
Mr Hassan, these are your words:
the victims of the two world wars, the inquisitions, the crusades, the conquistadors, the imperialism era, the Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and Iraq and Afghanistan to name a few will easily surpass any numbers you can give me. those were not done by mUSLIMS, in fact it was done by Christians. btw, your unconfirmed numbers seemed to had been enlarged for obvious reasons, and you can’t add what the nazis had done to the tally either.– Mr Hassan, Stalin killed over 50,000,000 of own people. Please count the zeros here. That is in addition to what Hitler did to Russian people. Stalin murdered almost 10,000,000 of eastern European people. Poles, Czechs, Hungarians, Ukrainians, Lithuanians, then some “of color” Gipsies, Jews, MUSLIMS, etc., etc.. However, as bad and as evil as it is, these GENOCIDES do not counted as a religious GENOCIDE. Neither Stalin nor Hitler were religious leaders.
Also, you are confused about the Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Afghanistan and Iraq. Neither of these evil acts like these were done for religious reasons. Also, please keep in mind the beginnings and the reasons behind the Hiroshima and Nagasaki tragedies.
As far as Iraq is concern, I am happy that finally the evil regime ended to some degree, with the religious evil still left in some power. I do not suggest to eliminate Islam from Iraq either. But also it shows that Islam/Muslims are not even peaceful among themsleves.
As far as the “conquistadores” and the “imperialism” you listed above, Islam is not excluded from these two evil acts either. I encourage you to do some homework in this regard, so you would not look so foolish again, next time you would try to impress others with something you have limited and incomplete knowledge of.
Mr Hassan, I do not have a reason to enlarge or play with the numbers of victims of these mass murders. One man killed, in my book, is one man to many man killed for any reason. It seem like statements like this are not understood in Islamic oppressed countries, yet.
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Tibo cs are responsible for killing hundres of Muslim in Pesantren Walisongo at Juni-Juli 2000 and the attack at Ied, Januari 1999 before.
Tibo cs beheaded Muslim there…Even Tibo cs has been blessed by priest at church before attack…
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czeslaw: no one, i mean no one, called other humans as “virus” or “scum of this world” except fascists like you. whatever you reasoning, when you start calling people that, you’ve officially anounced yourself as a fascist and rascist!
1 – the ormians massacre by the turks is a domestic political issue, the turks wanted to save their empire. they did it for their empire, and get this: NOT for their religion.
2 – the darfur massacre is an ethnical dispute, the superior Arabs wanted to preserve their domination over the black locals. they did it for their race and ethnic, NOT for their religion.
3 – about the death toll in the spanish expansion, weren’t the death toll recorded by the spaniards? that says it all really.
4 – seriously, you can’t be saying that Husseini joined the axis in the name of Islam. they joined hitler to save their necks, NOT to defend Islam.
5 – the African expansion death toll were based on rumours? don’t make me laugh.
maybe the whole thing was a hoax.now that I had proven your baseless rantings as complete rubbish and deceptions to slander Islam, get these:
1. the Quran were compiled by the second caliph Umar bin Khattab several years after Muhammad’s death. not 200 or 350 years after his death. now the bible WAS compiled more than 400 years after Jesus, that is a well known fact.
2. in the two word wars alone, loving Christians had killed HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of their own fellow Christians and other human beings of all races wordwide. as I said, you can argue all you like, but the fact is Christians did that! I don’t care if you say that they did not do it in the name of Jesus, it wont change the fact that Christians did those things.
3. about the other topics: the inquisitions, the crusades, the conquistadors, the imperialism era, the hiroshima and nagasaki, and Iraq and afghanistan. all of them may not be done for religious reasons, but that doesn’t change the facts that Christians did it! heck, your own examples of ‘Islamic violence’ were not done for religious reasons.
4. the inquisitions, the crusades, the conquistadors and the witch hunts where hundred of thousands of women were torched to death are all exclusive to Christianity.lastly, you can argue your mouth off, the fact stayed the same: Christians had killed more human beings since their inception than any other religion!
news flash: in Islam, killing one human being unjustifiedly is like killing the entire humanity. so your “One man killed, in my book, is one man to many man killed for any reason” is nothing new.
the weird thing is you advocated Indonesians to massacre Muslims holocaust style. wow, some way to respect human lives. you might not just be a fascist and racist after all, but a hypocrit fascist and racist.
btw, mr. scholarly bigot, go study somewhere else. Indonesia is already full of haters, we don’t need more imported haters here. why don’t you try applying to the neo-nazis, I’m sure you’ll fit in quite perfectly.
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Al Qur’an in the time when Muhammad saw is about to be memorized. However, beside order to memorize, Muhammad saw’s order to write every verses to stone, animal’s skin, leaves, everything that could be used to arrange a letter.
Then, Muhammad saw explained those verses. Muhammad saw make a rule, only Al-Quran, Hadith, and the teachings from him that could be written.
Every year, Jibril angel make a repetition for Muhammad saw about Al-Quran, Jibril listening to Muhammad’s Al-Quran reading. And about the year he passed away, the repetition is doubled.
Muhammad saw make that repetition to his friends too.
The right verses orders are shown by Muhammad saw.Al-Quran wrote by Zaid bin Tsabit in the caliph Abubakar government with Umar bin Khaththab suggestion.
At the time, the Al-Quran writings is still basic, so that Al-Quran can be easily memorize by each kabilah dialect.
But later, Al-Quran’s rewrited so that the reading is same for every kabilah, everyone and not determined by their dialect.
The rewriting then called ‘Al Mushhaf’, and from it they made five copies and delivered to Mecca, Syria, Basra, and Kufah for recopying.
In caliph Abdul Malik bin Marwan (685-705M), Nashir bin Ashim and Yahya bin Ya’mar added punctuation marks and later the new punctuation marks added by Al Khalil, like small waw for dhamma, small alif for fathah, small yaa for kasrah, syin fro syaddah, ha for sukun and ain for hamzah. Later this punctuation marks, is being simplified and that punctuation marks we saw today. -
Mr Hassan, comparing your comments with 1ndra just below yours, are truly confusing.
Your words:the ormians massacre by the turks is a domestic political issue, the turks wanted to save their empire. they did it for their empire.
– That is your and Islamic young turks take on this GENOCIDE. That is why Turky has problems with EU. All EU and majority of other countires are wrong, but You are right?
Your words:
the darfur massacre is an ethnical dispute…
Same like Oriman GENOCIDE of 1915, only dispute in Islamic eyes. Why in both are Muslim Islam involved as major perpetrators of this mass murders? No Christians or Hindus with kinives on the horizon? Just muslism?
YOur words:
about the death toll in the spanish expansion, weren’t the death toll recorded by the spaniards? that says it all really.
– Yes, one Muslim was throwing a Spanish victim in the boil oil, the other was making a mark on the sand. Did I answered your question? You can check Spanish historical Sociaty, to verify the numbers what you are missing here.
Your words:
seriously, you can’t be saying that Husseini joined the axis in the name of Islam.
– I am not saying it. The historical facts speak louder than you knife on some one’s throat. You wont learn it on Islamic history lessons about Islamic love… Husseinini didn’t defend Islam against poor and harmless vilagers, women anc children of Balkans. He slain them as it is written in koran. Again, it is not me who is saying it, these are historical facts.
Your words:
the African expansion death toll were based on rumours? don’t make me laugh.
maybe the whole thing was a hoax.– Yeah, Ormian Genocide, Darfur Genocide, Husseinin Nazi-Islamic army butchering Balkan’s women, chiolder and old man, and Religus cleansings in Spain are also all hoaxes. Yeah, right….only to you.
———-
1ndra
your own words:Al-Quran wrote by Zaid bin Tsabit in”¦.
“¦and we all have been told for more than a millenium and change, that koran was written by Mr Muhammed?
what a shame”¦
I knew that was something wrong somewhere. Thank you for pointing us lost people in the right direction.
1ndra
Every year, Jibril angel make a repetition for Muhammad.
Amazing”¦.isn’t it?
Did you know, that all (majority) of the names of the Angels and Demons, used today in Islam comes from conquered by Islam – Persia?
Did you know, that the belief in a single God, Islam adopted from conquered – Persia, where the Zoroaster was preaching the faith in one God, life after death, angels, etc., etc..? more than a millenium and then some?
Did your faithful imam, mullah or ayatollah forgot to tell you about it?
oh, what a shame”¦
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Al-Quran wrote by Zaid bin Tsabit a few years after Muhammad saw passed away, because Umar bin Kaththatb suggests it should be done because many Muslims who memorized Al-Quran died at wars.
The writing here mean collects all scattered Al-Quran verses those are written in bones, animal skins, leaves, etc before and combined by many Muhammad saw friends who memorized the verses that had been teached to them, then Zaid wrote in one piece, the first Al-Quran literature.
It doesnt mean that Zaid bin Tsabit is the founder of Al-Quran, he is the first writer who collect the scattered verses.
Al-Quran came from God for humanity through His messenger Muhammad saw. At that time, Al-Quran is not written in one piece, but in many media, then the verses is memorized together. And Jibril came to test Muhammad’s Al-Quran memorize. Muhammad saw did this too to his friends.
A few hundreds years later the orthography, the punctuation marks is being perfected so then many people who use different languages and dialects could spell it the same way. -
Boyke says:
Czeslaw
From your lengthy and numerous postings, I can draw a few conclusions on your view about Islam.
1. That Islam is basically a religion of violence.
2. Maybe not of all the Muslim is violence, but all them is guilty because they don’t at least condemn the act of violence conducted by some of them.Well, it seems you’re quite unshakable in your first point, I don’t want to waste your time by trying to argue against that. But on the second point I would like to share my experience.
If I have to categorize myself, you may call me a moderate Muslim as opposed to the fundamentalist that most likely fit your description of those die-hard Muslim. Mr. Degel seems to fit the description as fundamentalist as well.
Life in our family, well, goes like in any other normal family in the world I guess. We don’t plan to decapitate our Christian neighbours, never tried ramshacking the local church next doors nor brainwashing our Christian servant’s infant child. I failed to see those horrific Islam-plan in my extended family (a hundreds of them or so) as well.
My aging parents (both a hajj, and devout Muslim comparing to me) continually shake their heads whenever they learn news on religious conflict. We used to discuss about how non-sense it is the very notion of establishing an Indonesia Islamic State. That’s the environment I grew up with.
I don’t pretend that in my course of life I never meet a fundamentalist Muslim. In fact, they’re quite numerous and in my college years I knew a lot of them. Sometimes we were engaged in lively discussions, and guess what? I was an infidel to them! Not that I care though, but what amazed me is their capacity to hold on to their unshakable opinion, no matter what you said. In some funny way, it reminds me of you Mr. Czelaw.
Now, your view however you say it, may only make thing worse. Can you imagine if you “discuss” this with my parents? They’ll be mortified. Your view on Islam, Mr. Czelaw, will only create more opposition from the “united” Islam and thus counterproductive. I may not be a good Muslim by any standard, but Islam is still part of my identity. It’s a complex and delicate situation Mr. Czelaw, and if you only see in black and white, you’re-wrong-I’m-right style, you’ll miss the details which unfortunately matters.
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why can’t you guys just accept that all this religion stuff is a bunch of bs? It is all so stupid, ever read those books they are more silly than fairy tales. Religion is all about control. People use your fear of death and ignorance to control you with stories of hell and paradise. Stop falling for it. People should stop doing the bidding of the hypocrate imans and priests and shammans and the rest. Think of how much better the world would be with out all this. Anyway, there is NO hell, only the one we create here on earth.
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Boeboe says:
Hi all.
Hi Mr.Czeslaw and other posters here.
I’m Indonesian, 100 %. Am also Catholic, was born and raised. 3 generation of Christian family in which “still strong against the wind” of religious cleansing. Oh it was not new to us, really. We got used to it. We don’t like it, but do we have other choice, as our roots are here, in Indonesia. We just kept telling each other, that life isn’t easy as a Christian among vast majority of Muslim.
I was lucky enough to be living abroad. But my beloved family still lives there, in a daily basis trial by hatred an animosity. One Christmas Eve, they were ready to go to the Mass. They were delayed to get to the 7 pm Mass, because their sodding daughter, me, called them and talking for half an hour. So, they would go to the next Mass, the 9 pm one.
Maybe it was fate, or God loves them as much as I do, because the Church they were supposed to be in at 7 pm was bombed around 15 after the Mass started.
They escape the tragedy by a phone call…
Anyhow, they still live there, It’s home, so my father once said, when I asked what he’s going to do if Indonesia ever become a Muslim country, ” this is my home, where I was born `and raised, where my children born and raised, so if I have to die because I’m Christian one day, so be it. God will save me”.
So to an extent we are suffering, but we got used to it. Though we never stop praying for those who trespass us, and forgive them who prosecute us. May God be the only Judge in this. -
Mr? Mrs? boyke,
I like what you wrote in your comment. This is the communication about our points of view. I do not like you put me in the same basket with the cleric Ahmad Degel, but it is more important other than my feelings being violated, that the dialog continues.
Also, it would be useless for me to try to eliminate your personality, and you, because you are Muslim, and I am born Catholic. I can not imagine two of me in this or the next world. Believe me, one of me is more than plenty. So, I am happy, that you are who you are and where you are.
I live around Saudis, Iranians, Palestinians, Pakistanis, ect., as I mentioned on the other link in the other subject on Indonesia Matters. And, I talk with them and they talk to me about my personality and how I do react to the Muslim-Islam acts of terrors against humanity. They kow my character and my personality in a live scenario, so they see me differently than you can. Neither of the Islam-MUSLIMS I know support the terror and what the hijackers of Islam are doing. My 4 Iranian friends, are no MUSLIMS, and they hate MUSLIMS did when they conquered their Persian country. Persia was never Islamic state till it fell to the conquering sialmic sward. Do not argue about this with me, talk with Persians, they know it all better than I do.
As far as violence is concerned, it all reflects the bias, silence and numbness of people like you let say, that makes the whole Islamic horror and terror a valid reason to watch for more surprises, more violence, more kidnaps, more beheadings, etc.
Please keep in mind, that during the Ormian GENOCIDE of 1915-1923 there were few Turks, who didn’t like what the “Young Trucks” started. They were left with two choices, kill Ormians, or be killed. So, basically, one day you may/will face this same dilemma. You will have to slit my infidel throat, or yours will be slit by the followers of cleric Ahmad Degel. Please think of it for a moment, if you will please…
So, please see this whole tragic issues, from our point of view as well.
I do not know any “western” country, that includes the NATO alliance, that have the agenda to kill all MUSLIMS, or a single Muslim. Imams, ayatollah and mullah and like Ahmad Degel, are keeping fire going against west. That is the only way they can make some kind of living, earn few pieces of sliver to pay their bills by spreading the hate among uneducated populus of their countries. My “Paki” (Pakistani pal) told me that in Pakistan, that is the biggest problem. Sometimes we watch TV at his house, and they show Pakistanis burning American flags, throwing stones etc., etc., he is telling me that this is insulating to Pakistanis what they are doing. It seems that same is in Indonesia.
Would you mind to comment on the case of
1. Mr Tibo, Mr DeSilva, and Mr. Riwu. Also, if you would mind,
2. your comment about those three Indonesian school girls who were behdead not that long ago. And,
3. the comment of attorney general Saleh, “…if these man (Mr Tibo, Mr DeSilva, and Mr Riwu) will not be executed, it will violate the Islamic principals…”It is my understanding, that Indonesia is a Democratic state, so how to understand Saleh’s comments?
Till then, be who you are, you may be the lonely voice, that may keep people like me to keep talking to MUSLIMS.
Peace be with you, and your love ones.
————
Boeboe, good day to you!
How are you?
Here is my freebe, try to find and read. Super book by Walid Shoebat, ex-jihad guy from PalestineWhy I Quit Jihad.
After you read this book, you will have a view point of the reality of Palestinian/Israeli confilt. Of course, jihadists call him now “infidel”, but who is not infidel in their eyes? I just wish that all who are commited to blow them selves up, by some miracle will have a chance to read this book, before they will hit the point of no return to sanity.
Thanks for getting involved in this tragic mess.
It is truly hard to make any sens of these sensless killings, by whomever.
Here in Poland, we have been kidnaped by Soviet communists for more than 50 years. Soviet placed own personnel in our government and in our armed forces. And again, for the 4th time in our history Poland didn’t existed at all.During the 1st Partition of Poland, a person could be killed on the spot, by saying a word in Polish. Polish person couldn’t have any possessions, nor place to live in. A Polish person could not stay in one place, for he/she could be killed for it. So, Polish people know the oppression from our own history.
So, coming back from the 1,700s till modern day Poland, it is completely different. We are now free as we can be. Most of us are well educated. Some of us have very will paid jobs. We have minorities of many-many other nationalists living among us.
It didn’t happen over night, and without the price of human lives. And that is sad.
I am having in mind Mr Tibo, Mr. DeSilva, and Mr Riwu, but these are known man to be murdered by the regime. Imaging how many there are who’s names never get to the press or outside knowledge!
I am sure there are hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of man and women in Indonesia, that have bee murdered in Indonesia by the Islamic regimes of Indonesia, as it was happening in Poland then. So, in the case of Mr Tibo, Mr. Riwu, and Mr DeSilva, what we see is just an iceberg, just the tip of the mountain of pileup corps of humans butchered by the Islamic regime in Indonesia.
And that is the biggest concern right now.
There is no benefit to Islam-MUSLIMS that the clerics like the cleric Ahmad Degel, or any ayatollah or mullah create the horror and terror. The only benefit is, that these people do not know other way of making normal way of wages like the rest of us. So, this is the only way they extract money form poor and uneducated people they manipulate, use and abuse!
At current tempo and where Islam is today, it will take several hundred years for them to humanized/turn human their “religious supremence”, over other religions and other people.
Till then, many like you and I will suffer and be murdered by Islam. There are two choices here,:
1. Go to slaughter, as is happening right now, or
2. Acknowledge that Islam declared war on the rest of us, and act accordingly. And,
No 3 dilemma, casualties of innocent MUSLIMS who do not support what terrorists are doing with their religion.To make the point and case:
I am observing the Israeli/Palestinian situation. I am not beating MUSLIMS, but it is obvious, that Hizbollah and Hamaz have mastered the cowards of the cowards tactics of any arm conflicts. They shoot at Israelis, from the hospitals, Masques, School Yards, Hospitals, and from apartments complexes etc..When Israeli radars picks up the directions from where rackets are coming, they shoot back to that place, and guess what, IsraelI have hit an apartments buildings, hospitals, schools, pre-schools, etc., etc.. It is all computerized, so there is no real person involved in any reconnaissance, and the time to response is also very critical.
So, here we go with Islamic tactics hit then run for cover behind the child’s back, cover behind woman’s backs, etc.. In our European mentality that is to hard to comprehend, that a man hides behind a woman or child.
Well, look at Zarqawi and Usama and Saddam. They all promote suicide attacks, but how they behave when they face danger from the real solders? They cut dry, crop in their pants, and it stinks, than run for the cover whenever they can.
Saddam, dropped in the septic tank, Usama run to the caves in the NW Pakistan and is watching Playboy channel and is drinking Bud Light in tin cans. Zarqawi when he faced Iraqis solders, run instead of fighting, as he was portrayed on his videos. I heard he messed his pants with brown blood too, like Saddam did. SO, here you have Jihad leadership in action.
Then you see this psychopathic maniacs running on the streets with their underwear and panties on their heads covering their heads, and they scream, “death to Israel, they bombed our homes, our Masques, our hospitals, our schools” etc., etc., etc..
Then these same psychopathic maniacs run with their underwear over their heads, what an army uniform, shooting their rifles in the air, and are demanding “Geneva Convention” rules to be applied to their comrades at Gitmo and elsewhere.
War is war, lets go to the point where the last standing will win. Right Mr Muslim?
Boeboe, this is how we see it, the Islam invasion in Europa.
We try to be humane, we school their children, we provide free social services, etc., and then we are bombed, our subways are bombed, our planes are blown in the air, our houses are burned, our business are destroyed by the people we took in, they preach and teach hate in the Masques we let them open, and we sheltered them in our Europan countries.
How to understand these “poor” and abused Muslims?
You tell us what do your think of it.
Any Muslim is welcome to pitch in with comment.
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Molisan Tono says:
fhEeNa Says:
October 31st, 2006 at 5:26 pm
Islam not love war but Islam love peaceTHEN STOP KILLING AND BURNING AND CLOSING CHURCH FOR ANY BULLSH*T REASON!!!
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Molisano,
read this….
Muslim cleric Ahmad Degel delivered some old time religion at his Idul Fitri sermon……….
There always will be “Islamic/Muslim” terrors and horrors till these perverted haters like Degel will not be stopped.
These perverted clerics, ayatollahs and mullahs, thrive and make good money, by keeping Muslims below the poverty lines.
Like in communism, likewise in Islam, keeping people drunk either by chemical stimuli like opium in Afghanistan, Qat in Arabian countries, alcohol in Russia and former eastern Europa, were the foundation for demoralizing people.
Drunk, drugged, and uneducated population is easy to maneuver, control and abuse.
Ask Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Husseini, Hussain, your own Indonesian President, or any ayatollah, mullah or cleric.
Islam will fail and collapse like communism and Nazism did, if it will let go for the Muslim to get education, knowledge, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of press, freedom for women, and freedom to change religionsm etc..
So far, when Muslim woman or man would leave Islam, imams, mullahs and ayatollahs will sentence him/her to death. Just look at this poor fellow in Afghanistan few weeks ago.
He had to be confirmed “mentally” ill, in order to escape the death. But still, even then, the imams and mullahs wanted him death for leaving Islam! HOw many would leave Islam, if they will not be affraid to be beheaded?
Once you Muslim you can not escape this prison a live. Very rarely one be lucky to escape. Compare this to the current situation in N Korea, and compare it to the Islamic oppressions, then try to find the difference between them two.
Ill Kim II, nor Indonesian president will not execute own kind. That is why this Amrozi criminal is under your Indonesian president protection, because it is okey in Indonesia to kill non MUSLIMS. And like I said, the oppressed population is easy to control, so you Indonesian people are forced to pay to protect the criminals who are murdering you.
That is the cleanest example of pure, unmodified communism of highest grade. I am not getting why Indonesian government forces to mix Islam with communism in Indonesia.
Is Indonesian government in the act of preparing Islamic-Communism army to a war, like Husseini created Nazi-Islam army in WW II? Any suggestions why?
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great study though… I haven’t get any thought of it yet… but thx.
I don’t see how Islam is related to communism, but the way the killing and blablabla… yes, it show how it looks.so to complete the sentences, I just want a better home i call Indonesia to live with. for those lunatics and killer protector… god job mate to make your own nation. congratulations… nation of killer
Comment on “Enemies of Islam”.
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Hello Peace,
Well, I do not represent the Cathoic church here. or Catholic majoriry or whatever.
My opinions are my – one person’s opinions only.
I am just as confused about the Indonesian situation as any outsider can be.
Your bad manner and biased sarcasm is not helpful at all.
————
Hi 1ndra:
It is hard to keep cool when you see let say three Indonesian school girls be kidnaped and beheaded by Indonesian Islamist. Is that a normal way of live in Indonesia?
And you talk to me that I studied Islamic criminology section? Well, I hope that this apply to Indonesian attorney general Saleh. That supposed to be his job, not mine.
And 1nrda, be not jealous of someone’s education. No one is holding you back, except Islam, from reading books and talking to intelligent people around you. Or, do you live in cave with Osama?
There is more than koran book which is written on the subject of religions. I am sorry that you missed them all. However, if you like, we can talk about koran, why not. I studied koran for about two years. So, I believe that I have some knowledge of this particular book.
To me koran creates confusion, and is bad written piece as is Mine Kampf by Adolf Hitler, and Das Kapital by Karl Marx. Actually Marks started this ill-minded book, never finished it and died. Some Jews tried to revive this spirit of stupidity in Das Kapital, but it is all a failure. Look at Soviets, China, Jewish kibbutz in Israel and N Korea today. It all reflects Das Kapital ideology.
Koran was never written by Mohamed either. There is no single word of Mr Mohammed which was dictated by him to any literate scribe of his times and during his life. Many Indonesians are illiterate today as Mr Mohamed was illiterate during his times more than a millennium ago. Is that telling you something about Islamic doctrines in Indonesia?
In my view and my one person opinion koran is a failure as those two books are. But am I right on it for all humanity?
– No.
In my view, yes.
Do I hate Islam, as you are trying to put it that way?
– No.
But I would persecute these Islamic bustards and criminals who kidnaped and murdered these three Indonesians school girls. I would convicted them, and sentenced to life in prison. No mercy no parol. Just make them die in prison.
I would persecute attorney general Saleh for the murders of Mr. DeSilva, Mr. Tibo and Mr. Riwu, and possible more crimes attorney general Saleh have committed. Indonesians, investigate this bustard!
To people like me, bustards like him represent Islam. MUSLIMS do nothing about it. So, what people like me can think of Islam, other than Islam is a cult of death and injustice?
1ndra, read few books in addition to koran, so we could have an intelligent conversation.
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Tomaculum, finally fog is lifting up!
I do appreciate your insights and in my believe, your honest and very informative comments you made. Even thought I travel a lot, and then some even to Asian countries, people like me avoid places like Indonesia, because Indonesia is not hospitable and is not safe, so people like me would not go there and spent couple of thousands of Euros or dollars per visit. I have been to Japan, S. Korea, Philippines, Taiwan and India. It is safe there, I will visit these countries again and again.
Hindu do not care if I am Catholic. Shinto do not care if I am Catholic. Buddhists do not care if I am Catholic. They give me super service with smile, good food and a lots of it, and friendliness, so they can get or rather earn, as much of my Euros or Dollars as they can. Well, if it feels good, and emotions of friendliness are blinding your economical thinking, as in most cases they do, I always spend more than I really want to. Buy then, what the heck”¦ when will be next time I will visit Taiwan, Madras in India, or Kobe in Japan? Man, Japan is really expansive!
But, Tomaculum, why is that only you are gaining minds of people like me? Why only you so far are giving me some of insides of the Indonesian lives? Ricco did some good openings as well, but not to the degree you did in your last comments to me. Why no MUSLIMS will open their mind to Europeans like me? Except, when they will try to convert me to Islam or cut my throat.
Very interesting report, and I do really appreciate it very much.
You see, I shared my stories of the situations which happened in Poland and former eastern European countries. These are historical facts, not Hollywood-Jew controlled made films to make money for few. Through comments and stories like I am telling you, Indonesians can see that others went through some really bad times, and how in the long run, when price was paid, those who survived are enjoying the freedom paid in human blood. I believe, if there is after life, after this first death, that those who died, are also enjoying the fact, that their sacrifice, was not wasted at all. Same I believe, that the sacrifice Mr. Tibo. Mr. DeSilva and Mr. Riwu paid for Indonesian freedom and equality, will not be wasted by those who survived.
I hope that other Indonesians, that includes Muslim, will take the torch of freedom and march openly on Indonesians streets of big and small towns, and in villages and demand, yes they demand that their rights are these same rights for all Indonesians, not only Islamic Muslims.
Have you been beat up, till your kidneys popped up from the “bearings” (palace)? I experience it my self. My friend was beaten up to the point his longs split open. My other friends where beaten up with the hard robber sticks, on the front bones of the legs, till bone shattered through the thin layer of skin. This front place half ay between you knee and your foot. It was the price we all paid in fighting communism in Poland. And there where hundreds of thousands of people like us then and there. So, when I hear that “MUSLIMS” at Gitmo not always were allowed to pray facing Mecca, or have not much exercises, and this is consider a torture, well”¦. I leave comments to you.
There is a book “Death in the Forest”. It shows the ideal outcome of Das Kapital, and the victims of it. People who refused to give in to sick minds. In short, over 50,000 (fifty thousand) of Polish officers and solders were tide down by the ankles with barb wires, then were tide down with barb wires with their hands behind their backs and were shot in the back of their heads from rifles. No one consider this a Genocide. All was done in the name of communism and its enemies, like today this same/similar is happening at Darfur! Where is Coffee Annan with his bull sh*t UN? His is making big money with his son using his UN contacts, that is all you can expect from UN and bustards like Coffee Annan.
Actually German arm forces discovered these mass graves of Poles in the forests of Katyn and Ostaszkow in Soviet Russia, while they (Germans) broke the peace treaty between Nazi Germany and communist Russia. Andropoff-Libentropff pact as it was called then.
Soviets were denying it, as do Turks deny today their involvement in Ormian Genocide in 1915. That is why I formed the saying that Islam is a hybrid virus of Nazi and Communist doctrines.
Tomaculum, also there is wonderful book by Walid Shoebat, “Why I quit Jihad”. A must read to all. That includes “MUSLIMS”. I wish that the Palestinians will open their eyes to reality. Outside the book, I believe that the biggest enemy to Palestine was Arafat. He harmed more Palestinians than all others combined. But again, that is only my – one person opinion.
Tomaculum you kind of misunderstood the principals of partisans fights during the WW II in Europa. Partisans newer put their panties on their heads to cover their identities. They never did hid behind the backs of women, children and they never used churches as a bunkers. They never attacked from the school yards, churches, hospitals and never attacked civilians. The partisans never took civilian hostages. Partisans never beheaded any one.
These can not be said of jihad ill-minded psychopaths and murders. Hamaz and Hizbollah are complete opposite of partisans. They violate all partisan principals. I would never shelter them under Geneva or other conventions. I would never help them. I do not know a single person who sympathizes with these criminals! I know, then you would ask this: how about Israel and their attacks on Palestine?
Well, read Why I quit Jihad, by Walid Shoebat, a Palestinian by the way, and that book will give you better answer and understanding than I ever would be able to give. I take my hat off to this Gentleman from Palestine! Yes, you heard me right, in my eyes Mr Shoeabat is a brave person and He is a Gentleman! Arafat deserved what Saddam Hussain got today! I hope he will swingle from a long rope and for long before he will take his last breath. It is a big victory for Iraqi people. I wish, that Poland got some help during our uprisings I mentioned in earlier comments. No one helped Poles, Hungarians, Czechs”¦ No one, we were bleeding to death, and no one blinked an eye like in Darfur GENOCIDE Today!
Tomaculum, keep good work, I would appreciate any insides, and suggestions on how to help Indonesians. Let keep channels open, keep comments in motion. Indonesians, please get involved in this and similar dialogs”¦
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Palestinian conflict:
Tomaculum, you said, I think different about the Palestinian-Israel conflict”¦
Well, there is nothing wrong that you differ on this subject. I do respect this, and that you are honest about it. Otherwise the whole conversation would be like under the Islamic-Nazi-communist doctrine.
Palestine conflict, is very difficult subject. After you will read Why I quit Jihad, by Walid Shoebat, the Palestinian hero, you will gain some incredible insides of the matter, as I am getting from you to some degree on Indonesia.
Hamaz., Hizbollah and Al-Qaeda are not partisan nor military bodies. Which country each of them represents? Name one”¦
1. They are sponsored and financed by Iranian Islamic regime.
2. They do not represent any political body. They represent Iranian Islamic interests, not Palestinian or Lebanese interests.
3. They do not wear any uniform code of conduct, military conduct, or political conduct.
4. They kidnap people. That also puts them as a common criminals, as Saddam and Osama are.
5. They behead and murder hostages. These places them in the criminal and terrorist groups.
Why Palestinians and Lebanese want to have anything to do with these criminals?
There is some similarity in history of Poland and Palestine, even tough, we are not neighboring countries. I do have reasons to sympathize with Palestinian people. Poland was partition trice, and was taken off the maps of the world and Europa. Just go briefly over Polish history about these matters, just to learn, and compare Poland and Palestine. SO, the conflict in Palestine hurts us Polish people as well.
Palestine is in similar spot with Indonesian people today due to the very long, to long term of Islamic influences and repressions, which are still keeping these two countries in mental poverty. After the cure for mental poverty, the rest will follow almost automatically. Just look at Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Germany united! Is that telling you something about freedom of human mind? Why we do not have a Hitler in today’s Germany? Germans would kill him without asking UN permission.
But we have Putin in Soviet Union, we have this Ill-Pong, the II or whatever in N Korea, we have this little green man in Teheran, and we have Hamaz, Hizbollah and Al-Qaeda in Palestine and elsewhere. Why? Because, we still have communism and Islamic oppression of people.
Islam has no exclusive right on these unhuman tactics. Early Christian churches practiced this very same unhuman tactics. So, no one can point finger at me that I am defending one side, and am discrediting another one.
As I said in my other comments, that other Islamic regimes are using Palestine people as a meat, for their Islamic meat grinder. That includes Saudis, Iran, Syria, Egypt, Libya, and Iraq. It is all for the whole purpose, the hate of Jews and other “semits” as one of the Islamist have written in the column above couple of days earlier.
We Poles have attacked approaching German and Soviet tanks, on the horses with the swords in our hands as a weapons against German and Soviet tanks. That makes me think of Palestine people throwing stones at Israelis tanks. Very similar approach on this end.
But, also as I mentioned earlier, Polish people as the other eastern European countries, we never
– attacked civilians,
– never kidnaped non enemy non-military persons,
– we never beheaded any hostages or any one for that matter,
– we never attacked than run for cover behind the backs of women and children,
– we never used churches as a bunkers
– we never attacked form the school grounds,
– we never attacked from the hospitals, as Islamist-jihads are doing, etc., etc..
Hamaz, Hezbollah and Al-Qaeda do not fit in any category as a freedom fighters, or any partisan category.
These are some of the reasons, why we call Hamaz, Hezbollah and Al-Qaeda just simply cowards and bustards and war criminals. That is all they are. No dignity, no honor, no honesty, no end to it.
What is the solution to Palestine situation, if I may, my small one men comment:
1. Separate from Al-Qaeda, separate from Hizbollah, separate from Hamaz.
2. Do not take “gifts” from Saudis and others I listed above. These are not the friends of Palestine people.
3. Free Palestine from Islamic repressions.
4. Educate Palestine children, sent them to schools rather than sent them with TNT belts and kill own Palestine child, and to kill a human being. This current approach of Palestine to kill own children, is the worst of the worst of hate there is, the biggest self punishment that any one can get! And Palestinians keep doing it again and again, till they run out of own children to kill? Is this the ultimate Palestinian goal?
5. Get all Palestinian attention on human rights, commerce, education, and industry. Get that attention to the degree that Palestinian people will have no time to think of hate and Israelis.
It will take 3-5 generations. Nothing come easy, fast and free.
After these 6 points will come to the past, Palestinians will laugh at Israelis, and other Islamic countries, and many-many other will envy Palestine miracle of peace and love.