Other worldly factors in climate change, are Indonesian students right?
A report in the Jakarta Post, which said that a significant proportion of young Indonesians were content to regard the current climate change panic as
God’s Will
caught my attention, even before my agnostic and atheist friends exploded into mirthful indignation. (Why is it that so many non-believers here, who’d not think to blare out their scepticism back home, tend to take on a noisy resemblance to the long-dead League of Militant Godless – is it a reaction to the local fanatics?)
I’m certainly not an especially godly sort, but it seems to me that these young folks have a broader perspective than the panic-merchants. The more we read of the Gore Brigade, the more we find that their hysteria is manufactured. Gore’s own film was faulted by a British court of law, which decreed that, not least in view of the various lies/errors/inaccuracies it contained, showing it in schools had to be accompanied by a bias health warning.
If we think there’s a God up there, or even just Mother Nature, then it is patently His, or Her, doing that the climate is changing. Many scientists tell us exactly that, and get stridently abused and even persecuted for saying so. Others insist the climate is not significantly changing, or even going the other way from that which the panickers tell us.
A while ago we had a lengthy thread of argument on IM about climate (Saving the Planet?) and it became so self-absorbed that I gave up reading it. Since then I have paid sporadic attention to the issue, mainly due to my interest in free speech, and what I’ve learned from reading back and forth into the past decade has worried me about the character of the scientific establishment. A lot of these guys want and need government grants and are unlikely to upset their cosy apple-carts by challenging the in-crowd’s prejudices. Why should those people quoted in the Jakarta Post article be held up to scorn for preferring explanations that don’t depend on vested interests?
An article in the Wall Street Journal by a Mr. Lindzen, Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Atmospheric Science at MIT, in April 2006, reported that
Henk Tennekes was dismissed as research director of the Royal Dutch Meteorological Society after questioning the scientific underpinnings of global warming. Aksel Winn-Nielsen, former director of the U.N.’s World Meteorological Organization, was tarred by Bert Bolin, first head of the IPCC, as a tool of the coal industry for questioning climate alarmism. Respected Italian professors Alfonso Sutera and Antonio Speranza disappeared from the debate in 1991, apparently losing climate-research funding for raising questions.
He also states that censorship is in vogue in the journalistic sphere.. ‘At Science and Nature, such papers are commonly refused without review as being without interest.’ Not a very open dialogue, is it?
Lindzen’s own experience with a paper he worked on is also worrying.
‘…Normally, criticism of papers appears in the form of letters to the journal to which the original authors can respond immediately. However, in this case (and others) a flurry of hastily prepared papers appeared, claiming errors in our study, with our responses delayed months and longer. The delay permitted our paper to be commonly referred to as “discredited.” Indeed, there is a strange reluctance to actually find out how climate really behaves. In 2003, when the draft of the U.S. National Climate Plan urged a high priority for improving our knowledge of climate sensitivity, the National Research Council instead urged support to look at the impacts of the warming–not whether it would actually happen.’
God, Nature, man-made, inevitable…? We are not being given the whole story, for sure, and cui bono? In these circumstances, it makes more sense for Indonesians and the rest of us to seek answers from a level we trust, rather than bought-and-paid-for apparatchiks. What is really behind the panic? Is there a hidden agenda?
Ross I have been blogging on this for years because, apparently unlike you, I took some trouble to study the matter. And Hansen got it exactly right: “high crimes against humanity”. If this thing is not stopped it will make more victims than the Nazi and Communist regimes together.
“Level playing field”? My foot. They don’t want to appear there. Because their arguments don’t stack up. That is why they make use of the popular media.
I didn’t know you were such an ardent defender of free speech. When it came to the victims of the McCarthy witch hunt you were of quite a different opinion. Free speech for those who share your prejudices huh? The usual thing.
Oh and just one other thing: we saw that Lindzen was holding forth from his princely pedestal at the Wall Street Journal about the suppression of his opinions ( which are in fact more widely known than those of many a mainstream scientist). The WSJ would probably also classify that as the defense of free speech. But when Professor Ray Pierrehumbert tried to get a reasoned rejoinder placed that paper had suddenly forgotten that fine principle in favor of what they really are about: the defense of sectorial interests.
You were talking about an attack on the ‘scientific method’ when referring to the condemnation of the nefarious disinformation techniques of the fossil fuel lobby. Now you are talking about a ‘level playing field’. The access to any playing field depends on willingness to play by the rules. In the forum of science that means coming up with stuff that can stand up to testing and reasoned argument. But these contrarians want a free pass for their theories. And because they can’t get that they have sought and obtained a wider forum in the popular media where they then complain about suppression (and get many a sucker to believe them).
I won’t buy into the debate about McCarthyism. Sensible people have long since made up their mind about that.
Opponents in a debate? Would you call the people who kept coming up with disinformation about the relation between smoking and lung cancer opponents in a debate? You must be joking. And partly the same people are involved now, the same techniques are being used but the stakes are much higher.
To suggest that Hansen was talking about scientists who honestly disagreed with him is just being plain disingenuous. Those CEOs he was referring to couldn’t care less about science. Their interest is their balance sheets and the rest of us can go to hell.
“Meanwhile those interested in objective truth will continue to support those suppressed by the establishment, …”
Support? You mean coming up with vague accusations and complaints? I don’t see any sign that you have actually looked at the merits of the arguments pro and contra.
And what establishment are you talking about? I don’t know of any paper that is more ‘establishment’ than the Wall Street Journal. The same holds for the British Daily Telegraph.
It is in a way amusing to encounter somebody who finds Fox not right wing enough. Does that dangerous Red O’Reilly disturb your sleep Ross?
David Attenborough managed to get this instructive graph on a clear scale:
Ross, come to your senses if you have any.
You tell people to be objective, look at the facts, respect other people’s opinion. But as soon as someone addresses your facts, the objectivity of your sources, the validity of your claims, you turn to something else. And you whine: Conspiracy! McCarthy! Leftists!
Regards,
trane
P.S. Here is a link to someone who thinks that Gore is very wrong: http://fora.tv/2009/08/18/A_REALLY_Inconvenient_Truth_Dan_Miller
OK, Ross.
I don’t think you have read any of the authors you mention, apart from the snippets you have posted. Have you?
If so, who would prefer that I read? Who is the more convincing voice among the choir of ‘skeptics’?
Have you tried reading what ‘the other other side’ has to say about that voice?
If so, do those counter-claims sound reasonable to you?
If we are to have something approaching a reasoned discussion, we had better focus on the work of just one of the authors you mention. So pick one and let’s discuss.
Arie has tried to discuss with you, but every time he has made a concrete point, you dodge it, run to the other end of the room and start yelling. Stop it, sit down, focus on one issue, and discuss. It would be good for you.
Thanks.
Trane
“I certainly haven’t whined, simply wearied of Arie’s refusal to admit the obvious, that dissenters are being given a hard time, not by reasoned argument, but by threats, both legal, and financial.”
Ross, can you provide some telling examples of those legal and financial threats? The only court case I know of was the other way round. Some benefactors of mankind came up with sixty thousand quid in order to distract attention from the main issues by nitpicking arguments in court against Gore’s message.
If by ‘threats’ you refer to what Hansen said in Congress you are wrong on two counts: Hansen wasn’t in a position to make ‘threats’ and he wasn’t referring to people who have ‘reasoned arguments’, only hefty budgets to run a misleading PR-campaign.
Incidentally, all the website addresses I provided came up with ‘reasoned arguments’ against the contrarians. You haven’t addressed any of them.
And about those ‘climate panickers’ hogging ‘every page’ of the newspapers: you are an expert in putting the boot on the wrong foot. For long years newspapers have, in the name of ‘balance’ in reporting, magnified the message of the minority of contrarians, thus creating the misleading impression that there was still substantial uncertainty about the anthropogenic origin of global warming.
Here is an early report of an actual inquiry in this matter by the organization for fairness and accuracy in reporting (‘FAIR’):
“In our study called “Balance as Bias: Global Warming and the U.S. Prestige Press”—presented at the 2002 Conference on the Human Dimensions of Global Environmental Change in Berlin and published in the July 2004 issue of the journal Global Environmental Change —we analyzed articles about human contributions to global warming that appeared between 1988 and 2002 in the U.S. prestige press: the New York Times, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times and Wall Street Journal.
Using the search term “global warming,” we collected articles from this time period and focused on what is considered “hard news,” excluding editorials, opinion columns, letters to the editor and book reviews. Approximately 41 percent of articles came from the New York Times, 29 percent from the Washington Post, 25 percent from the Los Angeles Times, and 5 percent from the Wall Street Journal.
From a total of 3,543 articles, we examined a random sample of 636 articles. Our results showed that the majority of these stories were, in fact, structured on the journalistic norm of balanced reporting, giving the impression that the scientific community was embroiled in a rip-roaring debate on whether or not humans were contributing to global warming.
More specifically, we discovered that:
* 53 percent of the articles gave roughly equal attention to the views that humans contribute to global warming and that climate change is exclusively the result of natural fluctuations.
* 35 percent emphasized the role of humans while presenting both sides of the debate, which more accurately reflects scientific thinking about global warming.
* 6 percent emphasized doubts about the claim that human-caused global warming exists, while another 6 percent only included the predominant scientific view that humans are contributing to Earth’s temperature increases.
Through statistical analyses, we found that coverage significantly diverged from the IPCC consensus on human contributions to global warming from 1990 through 2002. In other words, through adherence to the norm of balance, the U.S. press systematically proliferated an informational bias.”
I don’t think that the situation has substantially improved. To limit myself to a local example: in Australia the only national paper (“The Australian”) is conducting a veritable ‘war on science’ by systematically pushing the views of certain contrarians, the most recent example being those of Ian Plimer.
Contrarians have generally been much better at PR than ‘reasoned argument’.
And here is a fragment from the “Access Library” website about television coverage:
“Scientific consensus that humans have caused global warming coalesced in about 1995. Yet for the next decade many Americans still believed that humankind’s role in the emerging crisis was a matter of great debate. A new study lays some of the blame for that national misconception on the nightly TV news shows. To avoid the appearance of bias, they continued to air contrarian viewpoints long after the scientific debate was settled.
Maxwell T. Boykoff of the University of Oxford analyzed 143 news segments about climate change that were broadcast between 1995 and 2004 on programs ranging from the CBS Evening News to CNN’s Wolf Blitzer Reports. Only 28 percent of the segments paralleled scientific opinion in portraying humans as the main cause …”
Ross, you want to have it both ways. First you claim that the ‘panickers hog every page’ and when it is then pointed out to you that that is not exactly the case you come up with fake indignation about the fact that people have dared to reveal that.
“Creationists and climate change deniers have this in common: they don’t answer their critics. They make what they say are definitive refutations of the science. When these refutations are shown to be nonsense, they do not seek to defend them. They simply switch to another line of attack. They never retract, never apologise, never explain, just raise the volume, keep moving and hope that people won’t notice the trail of broken claims in their wake. …”
The quote above is from Guardian journalist Monbiot.
Guardian journalist Monbiot.
Laugh does anyone really consider Monbiot anything but a loon?
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I think, at this point, it’s nuts to think climate change doesn’t exist. It’s been clearly demonstrated over and over again that average sea temperatures are rising. The climate is, in fact, changing as a result.
It’s still out there, though more rational, to be skeptical of the claim that human activity is the cause of it all. But that’s a political position, not a scientific one. if you look at the science directly, you see that the claim isn’t that human activity is the cause of all climate change, but that human activity is influencing climate change in a way that is likely detrimental to humanity and the resources it depends upon.
To put it another way: “the climate is changing too rapidly for us to assimilate the changes without deep and severe trauma, and with specific changes in behavior, we could likely slow the rate of change to one that is manageable and in our long-term interests as a species, as well as in the interests of the ecosystems we are a part of and rely upon.”