Anti-Chinese Violence
Feb 6th, 2007, in News, by PatungAnti-Chinese feeling in Indonesia, 1996-1999.
Jemma Purdey, in Anti-Chinese Violence in Indonesia, 1996-1999, suggests that the anti-Chinese violence which periodically occurred prior to May 1998 had its origins in the policy of the Suharto government of marginalising the ethnic Chinese population, restricting them to certain, mainly business, roles, and portraying them as uncaring and corrupt.
Frustrated and poor “native” Indonesians who might be expected to take out their anger on government officials instead were diverted by the government into venting those frustrations on the Chinese. So, for the Suharto regime, the Chinese were a convenient scapegoat, and a provided an important safety valve for the expression of the people’s passions, and allowed mob violence to be directed at targets other than the regime. Normally violence against Chinese was directed largely against their property, rather than their persons. (see Pogroms in East Java 1965-66 for a couple of examples.)
Anti-Chinese Violence in Indonesia, 1996-1999.
The riots which occurred in Jakarta in May of 1998 however were of a different nature, says Purdey. They seemed to have been organised, with military-like precision, rather than spontaneous displays of rebellion, and involved the use of rape against Chinese women, although the numbers of victims is disputed.
Purdey points out however that it is only a minority of the indigenous population which is given to participating in mob violence against ethnic Chinese. eurekastreet
288 Comments on “Anti-Chinese Violence”
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Cukurungan says:
Aluang :
Yes, I see what you are talking about. The Chinese are suffering inside their big mansions and crying behind the wheel of their luxury 4WD. Our successful pribumi brothers, the pengrobak sampah and pengamen lampu merah are happily singing pujian untuk Allah.Cukurungan :
If they were singing happily it should be two thumb up for the ustadz because, he already succeeded on his teaching to maintain happiness whatever people condition because God will only give “Heaven” to people who can reach the happiness in this world’s and most important things our streets is still save from a suicide bomb actions . However for the government, it is only deserve for a two thumb down because the government was only able to create pengamen and pemulung job in this republic. Our economic system is only sufficient to provide a sinetron life style 10% of us while the rest or 90% of us were only able to watch it on TV screen. What is your sugestion to our brother pendorong sampah and pengamen? Should they run gangster business while no other viable economic activities for them? Don’t tell me they don’t try hard because they already tried hard becomes PKL, tukang becak and slave industry. There’s a two basic weakness in our economic, the size is too small and its distribution is too poor but our streets is still relatively save because the goods recipes of the Arabian tales that you always condemned.
As I said Chinese in here should be very grateful toward pribumi because compared with their billion chinese brother in the china main land, they blessed by GOD be born in the dumb people land and make them look as the excel human compared with the most pribumi who never dreamed about luxury mansion and four wheeler car.Aluang:
Cuk, I sometime wonder if you have an organ called brain in your skull. I am an egalitarian, but when I talk to you I have to lower my intelligence to a monkey.Cukurungan,
Hehehe, finally you admitted that your savior is a very intelligence man even without using brain he was able to explain and teach you clearly about everything in this live, you should thanks to God who already guided you in this forum to meet your Super Guru, Mythology Man, Raden Mas Hario Cukurungan bin Cukurmiring
Regard,
Your Savior -
Raden says:
I see there is no value on cursing our chinese brothers on their economical success in Indonesia, as long as they got it from halal & hard work business then it is fine. The problems if they do obtain the accumulated wealth from the ‘ali-baba’ style of business. However I hv gone through Malaysia & Brunei countries where ali-baba do exist in those countries. Whereever there are Malay & Chinese population in one country or province, there always be ali-baba business. You knew, si Ali awarded contracts & in return si Baba gave them split profits, both are happy at the expense of the domestic economy system. It is demand & supply and no one can be blamed or should blame each other.
I disagree with Cukurungan’s view, blaming on the chinese side only, it maynot solve the problems, it is the symptiom, we should look at the bigger picture & I hv told you that ali-baba do exist in our neighbouring countries, so what ? we can not complaint about it. Malay is a lazy race & the Chinese like to take advantage on it. The Chinese can not do ali-baba in Western Countries like Europe or USA, because the mat saleh there are practising ‘clean-business’. Cukurungan can not claim that the Chinese Indonesia blessed because they borned in lazy Malay Indonesian society. This statement is very naive & too proudful with Indonesian centric. I said in other forum that Indonesian Chinese are equally accepted in Malaysia, USA, Australia & Europe. Should they were born in developed countries, they will equally succesful at world-class level other than only satisfy to run the ali-baba companies.
Trust me, those second generation of Indonesian chinese are doing well without begging from the thousand of Ali in Indonesia. There are 2 reasons :1. The Ali themselve like Bakrie, Panigoro, etc who owned & controlled oil resources in Indonesia via Lapindo do not capable to run the companies. Instead producing OIL but MUD-VOLCANO in Porong. The pribumi are given a lot of chances & concession but the stupidity had caused million of rural people suffering deeper. There are no chinese Indonesian involving in any oil business but look at the facts here, there were 12 pribumi companies received the concession but none of them produce oil at PROFITABLE operation. The result are clear that Indonesia suffer declining oil reserve sharply, only hoping the American’s help to dig our soils to recover more oil reserve then the Pertamina only capable to sell it.
Are you clear who to blame here Cuk? blame it on ourself lah, don’t blame on the rain.2. There are too many Ali nowadays, the DPR Ali, the Menteri Ali, the provincial Ali, the kabupaten Ali, all of the Ali are getting more GREEDY from time to time, especially with the reformation era – UNCONTROLLABLE. So, this may scare the Baba, because the Baba are no longer able to control their profitability anymore.
When the Baba scare & went out for migrate to overseas, back to square one, the thousand of Ali will look for other kind of Baba, it could be American, Singaporean, worse Iranian. You can tell which one are better?
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Sputjam says:
Oh for heavens sake, the chinese are superior in everything they do. Even in the US, the ivy league universities are getting used to the asian invasion, i.e. north asian and indian subcontinent students dominating sciences and maths.
However, unlike Indoneisa, the US are taking these students in to their advantage. Imagine thousands of genuises given US citizenship upon graduation with honours. Wouldn’t that contribute to the nation and benefit their industries in the long run, which will also improve their standard of living?
The malays must let go of their jealousy with regards to succesful minorities.
But I have to agree with ausdag on a leisurely way of life, That can be done only after you have strike a lottery, or wrote a bestseller or strike oil in your backyard. Then we can all stop thinking about the next meal and buy a beach house in bali or Lombok and relaxxxxxx, or a bungalow on Lake toba. -
Aluang Anak Bayang says:
A British colonist once said, “A Chinese is worth 3 Indians, and 10 Malays”.
As for the ‘tidak apa’ part, I am very well aware of it. Changing this attitude is not that hard. The most difficult part is getting rid of the shackle of religion.
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My brothers & sisters, now we can see in every newspaper’s headlines that we need Rp 600 Billion to build a super dam with 40meter height to square the mud-flow in Porong. About 20,000 affected families suffer because of Lapindo Brantas, and potentially the Rp 600 B will be taken from overseas soft-loan which means it will come from the tax payers money.
If Lapindo chose to follow the international drilling technology standard, to drill the subsurface at 3,000 feet below the ground, they should invest for casing which will cost them USD600K. The brain were either stupid or GREED to safe cost & for more profit, no one from BP Migas detected this violation practices in those early days.
GREED is not good.
GREED is destroying our soils, sea water & our country.
GREED is the source of evils.
GREED in Lapindo is even worse than the GREED in BLBI because it is not recoverable by ‘extradition treaty’ with Singapore gov’t. -
Raden,
Please read again my post I wasn’t blaming all misery in here upon Chinese only.
Did you think Medco isn’t profitable operation and do you think EMP and Star Energy aren’t a profitable operation? That big bullshiit if you think chinese could run oil business more profitable than pribumi you might correct they will make more profitable for Fukian or Singapore people.I met and talked directly with a financial manager from an oil company owned by Chinese Businesman. She told me that her boss always directed her to charge any expenses beyond oil business to opex oil account, so that those cost will be recoverable under the lifting cost of oil.
BLBI recoverable by “extradition treaty with Singapore ” that is “mimpi disiang bolong” for you not for me.There’s no question of the lapindo fault but when disaster in such scale occurred GOVERNMENT shall take over control the situation because the lapindo has no power and authority to divert mud beyond their area concession. The situation wouldn’t worst as today if from the beginning disaster, there’s full effort to divert mud to open sea but government and bp migas seemed prefer to play with the mud.
Pribumi Greed wouldn’t good for Indonesia but Chinese Greed already made million loss of generation.
thanks,
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My brothers & sisters, now we can see in every newspaper’s headlines that we need Rp 600 Billion to build a super dam with 40meter height to square the mud-flow in Porong. About 20,000 affected families suffer because of Lapindo Brantas, and potentially the Rp 600 B will be taken from overseas soft-loan which means it will come from the tax payers money
Export the god damn mud to Singapore for free FOB. Singapore pays for transport. Simple solution.
Please read again my post I wasn’t blaming all misery in here upon Chinese only.
Mischieves, arrogants occur in every race. These types causes problems, whether in business or faith. Be humble, patient. Be enthusiastic and vigilant in your work, and treat fellow mankind with dignity. Is that too much to ask for?
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Okay long hail Lapindo Brantas, we may need more Lapindo & Bakrie to make this country prosperous, good luck guys!
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When Suharto in power, Oom Liem, Prayogo & Sudwikatmono were the OrBa’s predators. When SBY/Kallay in power then Bakrie, Panigoro were the predators.
Lapindo made catastrophe in Porong, ten of thousands villagers live are in misery, the impact are huge but the Muslim militants keep in quiet, they forgot that those Porong’s brothers are majority Muslim brothers too.
We export Muslim militants to Thailand to train & stir-up chaotic province in Budhist country there but forgotten if yourown Muslim brothers in Porong are the victim of the big Indonesian pribumi businessman predators.
What are the similarities of Oom Liem & Bakrie? Both are greedy businessman and both are predators.
Waht is the difference? The pribumi predators are immune to ‘amok massa’, our Muslim militants are melted, they are okay to be squeezed down by their brothers predators or they are stupid & useless people!
Which one are more dangerous? For sure the pribumi predators are very much more dangerous, they have the same skin, they can put their people in BPMigas, in DPR in Cabinet because they are the same skin & Islam believers too. They are a product of more savvy & nimble predators and 100% guarantee it will be more difficult to bash them all, because they are blending into once DPR, Cabinet & mass (massa). These are your real enemy!
If mud volcano can not be stopped, it is simple, it will be your & my burden, it will be in the RAPBN 2009! -
? I thought this heading is ‘Anti-Chinese Violence’.
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Raden,
Do you know pepatah “SETINGGI TINGGI BANGAU TERBANG AKHIRNYA KEMBALI KE SARANG JUGA”
pribumi predator even they stolen our money once day they will bring back their money in here however for chinese predator, they won’t so stupid to bring back their money here because “red carpet is ready for them in fukian and Singapore streets”. Yes some money now was returning back here but on behalf of Singapore Government to further strengthen their grip in our necks.For me say, If Mas Aluang will take all our money is no big problems because he won’t leave us forever. At least someday, he want to be buried in here.
regard,
Amungme Son -
Well, guys, I am a avid supporter of Deng Xiao Ping’s “Cat Theory”.
It doesn’t matter if the cat is black or white, as long as it catches mouse, it is a good cat.
So why don’t we apply this pragmatism theory to this case? Doesn’t matter whether he is Chinese or not, as long as he corrupts, he corrupts.
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Janma says:
cukurungan, I have a load of rich chinese relatives… they spend all their money in Indonesia… well most of it anyway…. pay the electric bill 22 million every month… so I think the economy of Indonesia benefits more from them than without them.
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Dimp says:
Hi Cuk,
pribumi predator even they stolen our money once day they will bring back their money in here
That is because they know that they can get away with it in Indo (some even become high profile politicians even after admitting guilt). While the Chinese corruptors are hunted and gunned down.
I agree with orgindo, regardless of whether they are Chinese or Pribumi, if they are corrupt then they should pay the price.
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Mas Cuk, enough said I think there are more people agree more with my view than yours that pribumi predators are very much more dangerous because it can last for many of their generation.
Tommy is in jail then out however his ChandraAsri remain in Ethylene monopolistic business while we are in chemicals industry knew that Indonesia is shortage of Ethylene since 25 years ago.
Do you know Cuk, how much money they have enjoyed? At the expense of the downstream plastics are suffering because if every plants hv to import Ethylene from Petronas & Fomosa & PTT then you know the transport cost & logistically it will create disaster to many downstream chemicals plants.That’s why Indonesia never have competitive plastic, paraxylene (PTA PTE) and our textile industry TUTUP SEMUA, then perumahan PHK, then siapa kena Cuk? Oh again the famous Muslim militant: amok massa to selectively chinese smaller plastic/textile factory owners.
Who are the victims? The mediocre businessman who can not control the gov’t policy in setting up tariff to protect ‘bigger & greedier pribumi predators’ and the wong cilik pegawai pabrik find pink slips.
Pls Cuk, broader your perspectives, trust me after all we have the same objectives want to see Indonesia Jaya!
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The problem is in Indonesia, politics is very much intertwined with business. You can’t be very rich if you don’t dirty your hand with a little bit of politics.
With some politics, masses’ anger can be directed to other, as you can see how people get united to demonstrate when the newspaper cover about foreign exploitation.
It is just the same when a businessman do damage to Indonesia nature, whether he is foreigner or our own people, they are looking for profit. The difference is who can get hold of government.
One way to solve it is to have good government, like Singapore, but so pity that our government is controlled by a number of dirty businessman (by this I imply that not all businessman are dirty) and politician.
If only our own people are more educated and critical minded, then they will not be so easily manipulated.
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I forgot to mention mas Cuk, our babe or Ali predators are well known of contributing to America’s GDP, their favourite investment is Beverly Hills bungalows! Yes, if you don’t believe, take holiday in LA & Beverly Hollywood and make appointment with any local property agents and they will show you which bungalows owned by whom. Exactly like our famous movie dude, the ‘catatan si Boy’! It is a real story.
In Singapore, the land is limited and there is a rule if you are not Singaporean you can’t buy piece of land, only can buy condos, at the most only $1 – 2M, this is nothing compared to Beverly Hills bungalow which may cost up to hundred millions dollars!The Bottom line, it is not only how much amount of the money out from the country but the more damaging are the economic distortion as the result of policy distortion, which then destroy our macro economy foundation. We hv seen wong cilik difficult to find jobs, PHK, employment rate are very low, etc., etc.
Again the pribumi policy makers are very vigilant & smart, let the Muslim militants to sweep & get the weakest scape goats, the best victims are the chinese businessman who have no control over policy.
In my view, from this perspectives, purposely our pribumi predators who are in DPR & Cabinet will purposely maintain the Muslim militants present in our country, because our militant brothers are very cheap & easy to get agitate, setting fire is very cheap, only a few thousands rupiah you can do.
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For me say, If Mas Aluang will take all our money is no big problems because he won’t leave us forever. At least someday, he want to be buried in here.
Oh thanks Cuk, then I will be spending happily with your permission, but what makes you think I am a predator. My ancestors were nationalists and visionaries. A heroes cemetry in East Java was named after my great grandfather, and there were 3 generations of my descendants buried there. The 1965 pogrom had almost my entire extended families wiped out, and some uncles were exiled in Poland and Germany. My family were forced to denounce and severed tie with several family members. Everyone sufferred, but we make it through hardwork and preseverance. We do not wait for money to fall from the sky. We are not filthy rich like the Jakarta elites, but we do have enough for a decent lifestyle, and to send our children to school.
And from your statement, you seem to condone briberies and stealing from state’s coffer, as long as it is done by pribumis. I wonder if you are one of those corrupted government officials.
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Mas Aluang,
My condelance for your family suffering under “orba rezim” who already victimized their own countrymen and creating fearful towards a shadow communism while their self was undermining the country from within.
Sorry, I didn’t intend to accuse you as predator but I was trying to give an example because you are the one’s who claimed yourself as pribumi in this blog. I am not a government official but I am only a humble dukun engineer.
Folks,
I agreed that Cat is Cat and thieves is thieves whoever they’re. All of them were creating a distortion to normal economic activities. But based on lessons learned from BLBI cases I have no doubt that damaged by Capital flight done by the black baba was unrecoverable and all money was flying forever and even create further attack to Indonesia Economic because most of those stolen money invested heavily in the textile and other industries in China mainland and its output are dumped to Indonesia Domestic Market and it has made the fragile Indonesia textile industry dying.
Let we take example in Lapindo case actually Bakrie has spent huge of money to handle this issues but mostly the money wasn’t spend for welfare of “wong cilik” but rather be used to create “project mud play” for BP migas, Migas and other government official, to take benefit as much as possible upon suffering of “wong cilik”.
Of course, Bakrie Family has a big sins in this disaster but Government and Geologist engineer are also have big share to development of those disaster until this scales. Why from the beginning of the disaster the decision makers wasn’t informed clearly that the mud flow is unstoppable and the only way to minimize the damage is control and diverted the flow and not wasting the money on dreaming to stop the mud flow.
regards,
Dukun Engineer -
Hi Cuk,
It just seems that your comments are particularly ‘attacking’ the Chinese corruptors, while you ‘tolerate’ the Pribumi corruptors. If you ever talk to any Indonesians living abroad you can clearly see how these Indonesian pejabat lives while doing “study banding” or how their kids spend the Indonesian tax payers’ money. The same goes for the Chinese corruptors, they are all thieves.
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Well, regarding money invested outside, it is not only Chinese ‘corruptor’ that do it, every keen and smart businessman won’t be so stupid to put their hard-earned money (whether the money is got by dirty means or clean means) in a country that cannot guarantee the return.
Rule of business is simple, risk and return. If China and Singapore offer a better money return and less risk, as a good businessman, won’t you send your money out? Think like a businessman. Businessman is not idealist nor a charity giver.
It is not about Chinese corruptor or pribumis, it is just about common sense.
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Folks,
I am not only attacking “Chinese” because they can do nothing without the help “pribumi birocrat” but for sure “pribumi greedy” isn’t equal match for “chinese sneaky”.
Chinese Sneaky will always use their deadly mantra “belilah pedang musuhmu yg kelaparan” by using those mantra pribumi armies, police general and bicocrat are like a buffalo with their nose tightened and wired under control Chinese Hand.
See how after Temasek owned majority of Indosat share using stolen BLBI money, since 2004 until 2006 INDOSAT always suffered big losses due to derivative transaction so they didn’t need to pay taxes to Indonesia. I just realized what “Mas Aluang Said” that ” Chinese Businessmen is like the earth worms for gardeners ” yes I agreed exactly but the worms is not only make crops growing better but also eating the crops relentlessly.
My intention with my post is to challenge Raden opinion that “Chinese Corrupt” is less danger than” pribumi corrupt” and I didn’t agree with him because both of them is the equally dangerous to our economy even chinese corrupt pose further danger in the future.
Regard,
Amungme Son -
Cuk, what about your co-religionists blowing up innocent brothers and sisters? They are even bigger threats than Chinese and Pribumis corrupts. They destroy our economy, not to mention infrastructures. Middle Easterns vs Westerners war are none of our business. Most pribumis are poors in their own lucky land. Shouldn’t we improve our living condition first before worring about religious war? If we are a wealthy nation like China, then others will listen to us. Now it is all barks.
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Dear Dukun Engineer,
That is why I called it the neo pribumi predators like Bakrie with their ability to play in & out, DPR & Cabinet, are a kind of the second phase of more sophisticated predator in Indonesia. You should ask BP Migas, why there were no weekly progress report while Lapindo drilled 3 thousand feets in Porong ? why there were nobody knew there was no casing installed ? or ‘tutup mata ?’.
If Exxon or Chevron drilled 3K feets without casing in our soils, then I am very sure our BP Migas will and can spot it, they are the expert, never underestimate our capability, we have been in Production Sharing Contractor since 1960s.Cuk, when you accuse BLBI money can make China prosper & Temasek Singapore able to invest back to Indosat, I think you must do your math & research on how well Singapore run their business & then please prove it if you are correct !
You are a naive individual, you think the BLBI money is so huge ?, you are forgotten that in one year, without Oom Liem & other BLBI money, the USA & Europe leading MNC invested $600B/yr Direct foreign investment to China.
Without BLBI money, China will be the same successful China we see today.
Without BLBI money, all Singapore corporation like SIA, SEMBCORP, TEMASEK, SINGAPORE TECHNOLOGY GROUP, ETC are profitable, they won the multi billion largest floating drilling platform from Brazil, Europe countries …. ck ck ck, Cuk you are really squared, I am sorry to say this.If Indonesia really capable, one Pertamina revenue is about $37B per year and not to mention the other mining industry, but where are those profit ? If we run our business at profitable operation, the BLBI money is very small compare to the size of Indonesia. Our 2006 GDP is $215B, the BLBI size maybe approx only $60B. How can you say the size of BLBI money (if it is true, some of them in Sgp) can make China & Singapore prosper ????? this is too much & very cheap accusation. If China & Sgp leaders read this blog, they will not angry to you but they will think you are an idiot & lethargic malay pribumi, they will just ignore you, waste of their time.
Why not do your homework properly before throw your opinion in public ? -
well, if you pay attention at the Indonesian Chinese, they are not as big as you think.
Compare it with Chinese from Mainland China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia, US and you will see how Indonesian Chinese fortune will be dwarved.
In Indonesia, the difference is the way they do business. You got “mini-tycoon”, but not as big as chinese from outside. Indonesian Chinese are not that big, they seemed big because everybody else is little.
A lot of people has overestimated Indonesia’s worth. Face it, we are not as powerful as we were. We are just brainwashed to think so. Step out of the box, and look at Indonesia, sometimes you will be suprised.
See how after Temasek owned majority of Indosat share using stolen BLBI money, since 2004 until 2006 INDOSAT always suffered big losses due to derivative transaction so they didn’t need to pay taxes to Indonesia. I just realized what “Mas Aluang Said” that ” Chinese Businessmen is like the earth worms for gardeners ” yes I agreed exactly but the worms is not only make crops growing better but also eating the crops relentlessly.
As far as I see, Temasek case is purely case of capitalism. There is nothing “chinese” involved. Big eat small. That’s business, and capitalism. If you don’t agree, don’t blame Chinese, you can opt for communists instead.
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Hi Cuk,
My intention with my post is to challenge Raden opinion that “Chinese Corrupt” is less danger than” pribumi corrupt” and I didn’t agree with him because both of them is the equally dangerous to our economy even chinese corrupt pose further danger in the future.
You actually contradict yourself within one sentence. First you said that they are equally dangerous, which I agree, then you again “attack” the Chinese.
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Folks, if you pay attention to Cuk’s other statements in different topics, we are clear that Cuk might be one of the provocateur during Chinese Riot in May ’98. He likes to show his superiority with his Islam phobia. It is the fact of live, I believe there are hundred thousands people like Cuk living in Indonesia. I call it as the real & present danger.
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Mas Aluang,
The Indonesia moslem terorist isn’t the high profile terrorist purely driven by “religious hatred” but the most of them just the poor and low educated people who have no access to capital, knowledge and skill to make contributions to theirs society while “suicide bomb recruiter” offered the simple way to make contribution to be part of movement ” Global Jihad against Big Sattan”. The big problems because it is only “terrorist modal cekak” they were directing their target to the soft target as long as it has link or connection with the Big Sattan.
As I said previously, this kind of terrorist won’t never exist in here, if those poor people have a viable economic activities to support their families lives. The viable economic activities will appear by itself if the outbreak corruption orchestrated by the greedy pribumi and the sneaky chinese is gone.
Raden,
I am just a Dukun Engineer and not a sunshine economic and financial analyst and I don’t care with SINGAPORE and Chinese people opinion upon my post. Whatever Indonesia economic size but for sure the Indonesia has a good record for producing “Chinese New Rich” from a poor chinese until listed in the forbes. You don’t need to exaggerate Singapore economic and I know exactly how much margin profit of the platform fabrication. The mighty of the Singapore economic has been strongly questioned by Hongkong and Macao financial expert. Singapore economic will be strong when their big neighbors countries is still under the corrup government.
For sure, if there’s only two option for us to vote whether we vote “om liem” or “panigoro” sorry friend I have to disappoint you that I will vote for “panigoro” as I said once day he will reguest to be buried in here.
Hehehe trust me I am the only one the mythology man from underneath Mountaineous of Jayawijaya. I agreed that I am the real danger for anyone who has intention to steal the wealth of my brother and sister.
Regard,
Amungme Son -
All those with interest on anti-chinese violence should read comments made in Singapore forum : samyboy.com (some indecent photos there so beware) at http://forums.delphiforums.com/sammyboymod/messages?msg=141678.96 on Indonesian race violence.
Rgds
Comment on “Anti-Chinese Violence”.
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Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
May 18th, 2007 at 8:01 pm
Sputjam Says:
May 18th, 2007 at 10:04 pm
Agree with both, but in an ideal world, tidak apa is the way to go. Trouble is, it’s no longer an ideal world. Just a comment made in one of my less rational, idealistic moments 🙂